SedonaEye.com columnist Eddie Maddock discusses the Sedona in Motion issue as a city plan comes with yet another expensive traffic standstill in Uptown for a year.
Sedona AZ – At long last initial steps have been taken to launch the Sedona in Motion plan. Tackling this monumental task aimed as the first step in addressing Sedona’s transportation issues has commenced at Sedona’s city center, commonly known as “Uptown,” and the disruption is predicted to be ongoing from now until mid-summer of 2020. The project will include two roundabouts and a median with landscaping.
City Council has approved the project budget in the amount of $4,401,990. It’s reported the source of $200,000 of that amount is from the parking meter fund made possible by the merchant advisory group.
Of course uptown businesses have concerns relating to how this disruption will affect their sales. And their concerns are justifiable. Let’s face it. For the past several years Sedona has literally spent millions of dollars on campaigns to promote Sedona as an attraction for destination tourism.
Long before that specific target marketing was put into place Sedona was already extensively well known which was true even prior to Sedona becoming an incorporated city. Therefore it made good sense to reason that any type of marketing whether targeted at a specific purpose or not, even more day-trippers would jaunt up from Phoenix just for the day. This might directly or indirectly serve as an example of the law of unintended consequences.
With the reputation of being a don’t-miss-location on the agendas of so many travelers, the pending disruption of uptown Sedona could act as a catalyst for bad publicity when visitor’s pop into this magical place for a day. The common wait in traffic lines has already served to usurp the costly portrayal of Sedona that over the years has eroded to the status in many instances as becoming “just another tourist trap.”
The Importance of Word Of Mouth Marketing – Statistics and Trends
https://www.invespcro.com/blog/word-of-mouth-marketing/
1. 28% of consumers say word of mouth is the most important factor in strengthening or eroding brand affinity. 64% of marketing executives indicated that they believe word of mouth is the most effective form of marketing.
A recent ADOT traffic study found the majority of Sedona traffic backs up miles to drive through the Sedona city limits, and then continues without stopping to reach Flagstaff and Grand Canyon.
Remaining developable land in Sedona is limited, as are options for accommodating increased traffic. If plans move forward to amend building codes to allow higher density development, that doesn’t automatically increase access to additional routes to accommodate even more traffic within Sedona City Limits.
Proposed transit methods as a solution, unless the trend has substantially changed, is a waste of time. People in general will not give up their cars. Would you?
Since the drought during 2018, Sedona has been blessed with abundant rain to assist Mother Earth’s ability to stave off pending disaster. “Seriously?” you might ask. Yes, indeed, because no matter how much power mere humans sometimes think they have, when it comes to Mother Nature, there’s no competition.
The lush vegetation we are enjoying from the Pennies from Heaven via snow and rainfall will soon dry out under unrelenting summer sun.
We will still have lines of cars backed up within our three entries of limited space. Uptown will become almost inaccessible. People will be angry. And considering the proven fact that word-of-mouth advertising is the best, how favorably will they relate their “Experience Sedona” to their friends back in “wherever?”
Sedona wild fires have been reminders of Mother Nature’s dominance over city politics and best laid plans.
Regardless of how much money the “City” subsequently throws at the local Chamber of Commerce or if by a miracle they ventured outside city limits and contracted with a professional advertising agency, would results even come close to word-of-mouth feedback which will be forthcoming during and even after this project is finally completed? It may not be wise to disrespect the influence of “Karma.”
And, of course, let’s not forget the worst case scenario: WILD FIRE.
Don’t ever ever say it won’t happen to you!
Point of message: Please, please consider reassessing your own priorities as more and more increased density projects are placed on City Council agendas.
Does being consumed by one’s own perceived power to control represent a positive attribute? Isn’t Sedona already on overload?
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The direction that the politicians are taking Sedona is straight to hell. Year-round residents are the backbone of Sedona and we are to be catered too. Tourists will only come once to drop a dime, they don’t come back but one infrequent day in time. Those that say tourists are our future should never be part of Sedona Now or Sedona in Motion aka the present.
Eddie, Says 28% of consumers say word of mouth is the most important factor in strengthening or eroding brand affinity. 64% of marketing executives indicated that they believe word of mouth is the most effective form of marketing.
Oh really Only 28% So what about the other 72% , It is call marketing. Please tell us how how” word of mouth” marketing will get people to come to Sedona mid week and in the summer and January. Eddie stick to what you know the past. You say” Karma” and all you do is complain and point fingers at the city and the chamber that actually work for Sedona.
Eddie you and your followers just want some old Sedona you remember like an old MGM movie,,,, well Sedona is a tourist town always has been and it will grow .
Even though current traffic volumes are above the carrying capacity of the local highways, the overinflated ego’s of Sedona leadership want us to believe they have a solution. Sedona is motion is nothing but a boondoggle. A diversion, until the next diversion and ultimate destruction of what attracted most residents to Sedona.
Sedona is now a tourist trap run by a mayor who owns a tourist event.
I morn the Sedona I once loved. Too many idiots killed her.
Sustainable tourism?
… or should that be stupid sustainability? Sustainability is a perfectly good word, when used to describe a system with inputs and outputs to/from a control volume, given some generation and dissipation possibly too, in engineers’ terms. It’s just that, because the word has been used by the treehuggers and then the cntrl-left in general for so long as a BS word to throw out there along among the stupidity that they often emanate, it has bad connotations. Sustainability is often just stupidity by association, so it’s time to straighten things out.
THERE ARE LIMITS TO THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE YOU CAN PUT IN A LIMITED GEOGRAPHICAL AREA !!!!!
The city doesn’t get it, Eddie! They really don’t care. It’s all about them and not the future. Keep trying to get those people to care but good luck.
We are 15 year Sedona residents. We heard about Sedona about 5 years before we first visited and subsequently decided to move here. We are still very active – hike a lot and enjoy the outdoors. In so doing we have NEVER met one single person on the trail who said they didn’t hear about Sedona from friends – and that’s the truth!
And for that person, Steve Segner(?) to imply Mrs. Maddock lives in the past. We reread the article and it was essentially relating to the current redesign of the uptown highway which to our knowledge is still part of 89A, a State Route to Flagstaff.
Mr. Segner apparently has problems with the truth but that supports his obvious involvement and control of Sedona city politics and tremendous influence with their decisions. We know of NO place else that funds their chamber of commerce let alone to allow them to dictate municipal policy! Unheard of – but then Sedona is unique but not all of it is good.
Our walking buddy said it for us!
Carillon & Westside Walkers
Can you just shut up?
Let’s face it. Probably the biggest guffaw (at least one of them) was when that city council under Mayor Rob Adams voted to give the chamber the asinine advertising contract in the first place as well as doing away with commissions and allowing the secret society(s) = Citizen Engagement committees. With that transparency went out the window and allowed participation from questionable legitimate Sedona city residents (no need to mention names) to essentially introduce and enforce mindless activities with ridiculous outcomes. Ask one who knows e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g (w/initials SS?)
Hang onto your hats, Folks – just wait until they extend that “road the goes nowhere” (dead end of of Forest Road) to connect to W89. Lordy, Lordy if you haven’t lived to 40 you may never have the chance once that doozie is on track. On track? Off track? OMG – and then cars might actually turn left from 89A to go uptown? And someone w/the initials SS gripes here about old news? Sure as hell beats the current direction, oh yea) IMO.
Steve keep on giving people the facts please. They hate that.
Thank you.
People keep griping about the negative comments made by SE readers. Well, maybe if the no-it-all big-mouth (no name necessary) would put a sock in it we wouldn’t be so contrary. Wish he’d spend more time at the Basha’s bakery instead of his apparent usual Tuesday routine. Maybe they appreciate him there as much as they surely must also rejoice his presence at City Hall. BARF!
No, it isn’t that the people commenting on this site are just negative about everything. What it does seem we have in common is being fed up with the catering this city does to a regional chamber of commerce. Paying to promote business members outside City Limits who don’t even collect city taxes. Nonsense!
It simply isn’t normal or common practice for member driven organizations to be given so much power and control over an incorporated area let alone receive millions of $$$$ to do so.
Try playing by conventional rules and maybe the voting residents might react differently. Why is that asking so much? Should be common practice here as it is everyplace else.
Until it happens (when and if) don’t expect respect from us. You certainly don’t show any to legitimate residents who are valid registered voters.
It’s all about buying and paying for the chamber and with questionable accountability if any. Publish an audit or it’s same old story, the people want to know what the council and staff are up to.
Playing the blame game, calling names and trying to publicly SHAME anyone that speaks up is the only thing the the chamber, lodging and local paper do well.
It most certainly is questionable shady behavior. Show me the list of every business owner who contributes to tax base that SIGNED approved of their competition to be PROMOTED with the taxes they collect.
You can’t, it is a fraudulent scheme imo. The infrastructure should of been put in place FIRST!!!!!!
Sedona in Motion, wasting taxpayer money.
Retribution by council on residents? SIM.
Sedona has suffered greatly under the control of the Democrats of the Red Rock group. They’ve doubled city taxes and spent money in search of problems. The sheer lack of social and personal responsibility for others money is typical of California and New York and Illinois Democrats. Enough already of these tax and spend to line their own pockets. Sedona has no housing shortage, and we don’t need government funds for housing programs that only requires we residents stop giving dollars to the Democrats who run the Sedona Chamber of Commerce, the same
people who allocate exorbitant salaries and wasteful advertising using our tax money. Stop being a doormat for DORR.
Carl, what are you talking about???
How could “the Dem’s” have doubled the city taxes when there IS NO CITY TAX?
Not sure what California Sales Tax Planet you live on @@carlAnonymouscommenter but Sedona has the highest TAXES in Arizona see link below.
You and your Dems keep your hands off my wallet. On March 1 you Dems started ripping me off for more w/the .50% sales tax increase for a town that doesn’t need or want your lousy ideas.
Sales tax calculator for Sedona, Arizona, United States in …
http://www.salestaxstates.com/sales-tax-calculator-arizona-sedona
Sedona city rate(s)10.4% is the highest possible tax rate in Sedona Arizona. Its now 10.9% PLUS. I’ll shop VOC or Cottonwood or Phoenix before city of Sedona. I want you to Suffer, you landlords in Uptown that don’t even live or shop here. I’m not helping you out. You own the Chamber and City. Get their help.
Maybe you should consider docking their reelection funds for screwing your businesses.
You make a good point and It’s a good thing that 70% of the sales tax paid in Sedona comes from tourists. I think that it’s a rather good deal for us residents. 3.5m come to use our roads, they spend bank here, stay in our hotels, leave their sales tax money in Sedona AND GO HOME! That save’s us a lot of money.
Do you realize that if we didn’t have that 70% of sales tax from the tourists WE WOULD HAVE A PROPERTY TAX to pay for a fraction of the services that we need.
Property tax argument on top of highest sales tax ?
“WE WOULD HAVE A PROPERTY TAX to pay for a fraction of the services that we need.” @@Sedona Sales Tax Rate
What you failed to mention is to impose a property tax it must be approved by the voters. However and based on the way voters voted the last election, they most likely WOULD approve a property tax in addition to the exorbitant sales taxes we are already paying.
As for that alleged 70% of sales tax being paid by tourists, has VALID confirmation of that figure ever been offered? That holds true as well for the outrageous amount of money GIVEN to the chamber of commerce for alleged destination marketing. What concrete PROOF exists there is any type of positive return on that investment other than lines and lines of backed-up traffic?
The Great Sedona Rip-Off is the name of the game here, offering little more (if anything) besides bad blood between the City/Chamber love affair and angry residents. As indicated by other comments made it’s the regional chamber’s out-of-Sedona members who are reaping benefits. Nice work C of C and City of Sedona.
What a joke!
Your numbers aren’t true and there is NO WAY IN HELL the voters would EVER vote to GIFT the city property taxes. More money for the overpaid employees to get.
City of sedona doesn’t provide any services they only have fees. They gift away to cronzies in the region.
If you believe 3.5 million tourists use our roads, and only 9000 residents, they why are the residents paying between 30-70% of the costs.
Instead of giving the Chamber money we should be charging tourist businesses an impact fee for clogging our roads.
Claiming that WE WOULD HAVE A PROPERTY TAX without the sales tax tourists pay is BULLS*** A property tax has to be put on the ballot by City Hall and approved by the electorate, both unlikely.
Residents indirectly foot the bill for for tourism’s heavy impacts. Tourists clog our streets, use public services including police, fire, ambulance, street maintenance, trail maintenance, etc., and bring low paying jobs.
According to the FY 2018 Proposed Budget, while the visitor population represents 55% of the total annualized population, visitors contribute less than 25% of the funding for the operation of the wastewater system. This is the main reason why sewer rates have increased every year but one since FY 2010.
BTW, the “City of Sedona Community Report 2018” states: “FY 2017 city revenues generated by sales & bed taxes . . . .57%, two thirds of which is paid by visitors.” Two-thirds of 57% is a far cry from what the mouthy greedhead, steve Segner, is claiming.
Sedona Fire District NOT PART OF THE CITY
Sedona Oak Creek School District NOT PART OF THE CITY
Sedona Library Funded Primarily ($900,000) from OUR COUNTY PROPERTY TAX, Not part of the city.
The only people that NEED the City of Sedona are those collecting six figure salaries for working 4 days a week with 2 weeks paid vacation and two weeks paid leave the first year of employment and the GREATER SEDONA Chamber of Commerce, which receives over $2.6 million every year from city taxes.
IN OTHER WORDS TAX PARASITES !!!!!!
Oh come on DJV/DV give it a rest
The counties could not possibly do worse. Incorporation has been a disaster for Sedona.
Let’s see, 4 days a week, less 8 Monday holidays =200 days
2 weeks paid leave and 2 weeks paid vacation =
Actual scheduled days working = 184 days
1/3 of their time spent in meetings or training =
Total number of days pretending to work =123 days
Most of those days doing reports or otherwise unnecessary paperwork.
CITY EMPLOYEES WILL NOT BE MISSED.
Mandy, Sedona says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation. This is a preview, your comment will be visible after it has been approved.
June 16, 2019 at 6:58 am
“WE WOULD HAVE A PROPERTY TAX to pay for a fraction of the services that we need.” @@Sedona Sales Tax Rate
What you failed to mention is to impose a property tax it must be approved by the voters. However and based on the way voters voted the last election, they most likely WOULD approve a property tax in addition to the exorbitant sales taxes we are already paying.
As for that alleged 70% of sales tax being paid by tourists, has VALID confirmation of that figure ever been offered? That holds true as well for the outrageous amount of money GIVEN to the chamber of commerce for alleged destination marketing. What concrete PROOF exists there is any type of positive return on that investment other than lines and lines of backed-up traffic?
The Great Sedona Rip-Off is the name of the game here, offering little more (if anything) besides bad blood between the City/Chamber love affair and angry residents. As indicated by other comments made it’s the regional chamber’s out-of-Sedona members who are reaping benefits. Nice work C of C and City of Sedona.
Parkinson’s Law holds that a task will take as long as the time allotted to complete it. It seems to be a kind of social equilibrium theorem applicable to any complex organisation.
Granted that work (and especially paper work) is thus elastic in its demands on time, it is manifest that there need be little or no relationship between the work to be done and the size of the staff to which it may be assigned. Before the discovery of a new scientific law—herewith presented to the public for the first time, and to be called Parkinson’s Law*—there has, however, been insufficient recognition of the implications of this fact in the field of public administration. Politicians and taxpayers have assumed (with occasional phases of doubt) that a rising total in the number of civil servants must reflect a growing volume of work to be done. Cynics, in questioning this belief, have imagined that the multiplication of officials must have left some of them idle or all of them able to work for shorter hours. But this is a matter in which faith and doubt seem equally misplaced. The fact is that the number of the officials and the quantity of the work to be done are not related to each other at all. The rise in the total of those employed is governed by Parkinson’s Law, and would be much the same whether the volume of the work were to increase, diminish or even disappear. The importance of Parkinson’s Law lies in the fact that it is a law of growth based upon an analysis of the factors by which that growth is controlled.
Residents would not notice of eh City of Sedona was shut down permanently.
In today’s Arizona Republic
Scottsdale top tourism executive made $350,000 base and bonus of $102,000.
Scottsdale marketing budget is $12.2 million.
Seem to prove we are underpaying our city manager with a $40,000,000 budget and more employees to manage.
Tourism accounts for 21,000 jobs in Scottsdale
Sedona Tourism supports over 10,000 jobs. And the majority of the city bed tax goes not for advertising but for Tourism support.
This year the city canceled the long term contract with chamber visitor bureau and also stopped the split of the .5% bed tax.
The City council now sets the amount of marketing monies each year.
I am not happy about less spending but the council is uncharged .
We’re visitors from the Michigan Thumb invited to Sedona to attend a wedding and stayed three days. We find the scenery outstanding and residents in general very friendly. (The traffic in certain sections is horrible.) Why would this beautiful place allow traffic to ruin it and be a mess? Your busy commercial uptown is a disaster and we tried once to go but then avoided it after that. (Wedding guests shared tips and we went to Montezumas Castle and up to Flagstaff Snowbowl area to hike because it wasn’t crowded like Sedona paths and was cooler weather.)
We’re enjoying our visit but it’s doubtful we will come back and we’ll recommend friends if they want to come to Sedona to stay outside and come for a day to see some red rock views. (Airport nice view spot!) Thanks for being nice to visitors but it’s pretty expensive to stay and eat here. Don’t forget to put Michigan on your visit list. We have beautiful unique scenery too.
“Scottsdale top tourism executive made $350,000 base and bonus of $102,000.
Scottsdale marketing budget is $12.2 million.”
What’s left out of this vision of hype? Could it be Scottsdale’s population as of 2017 was 249,950? And Sedona’s had dropped below 11,000!
Point being, more proof that both Sedona’s wages to municipal employees as well as amount being “given” to a “regional” chamber of commerce are way, way over the top.
Thank you, steve Segner. Finally you posted something worth while.
“This year the city canceled the long term contract with chamber visitor bureau and also stopped the split of the .5% bed tax.” @steve Segner 6/19
Is that true? If so the local print publication most assuredly neglected to mention it. Hmmmm very interesting. Could it possibly be the State AG is actually taking some of the complaints about this hotly disputed issue seriously? Conflict of interest, gift clause violation, lack of RFP’s, questionable accountability, source of funding for chamber of commerce second location in West Sedona, additional chamber employees?
Hmmmm ( again) maybe things are looking up? If so hope they bust them big and demand for questionable use of city funds (if that should be acknowledged) be paid back to the City of Sedona. Ohhhh how sweet would that be?
Or could it be like I’ve said all along that the bed tax money is controlled by the city Council,but you guys just won’t go to meetings and you won’t listen . The city is allocated up to $30 million for roadwork they canceled the chambers contract they’re working on parking issue transportation issues bus issues on the interest of locals and visitors
Steve Segner is crazy (June 19). It’s not the split of the .5 percent bed tax; it’s .55 percent of the 3.5 percent City bed tax that goes to the greedy Chamber of Commerce. This amounts to $2.2 Million this year and $2.6 Million next year.
It’s well known the bed tax money is controlled by the City Council. They insist upon giving millions to the Chamber, which is despoiling our small town and its quality of life.
The City needs to take care of the traffic congestion and the roads, not give free money to the Chamber.
More smoke screens from the likes of a @Steve segner .. “Or could it be like I’ve said all along that the bed tax money is controlled by the city Council,but you guys just won’t go to meetings and you won’t listen.”
In a previous comment 6/19 he wrote .. “This year the city canceled the long term contract with chamber visitor bureau and also stopped the split of the .5% bed tax.”
So what? Remember the shell game transfer money from underneath one shell to another which IMO is exactly what they will do with and for their beloved chamber of ripoff and their loudmouth know it all leader.
Nothing will change. Wait and see. Why waste time going to a meeting when we can watch the dog and pony shows on TV in the comfort of our homes?
Get real @Segner. When we find out as a fact you’ve relocated to one of your many mansions far away from Sedona then maybe that will be time to celebrate?
However and in the meantime Folks, keep those letters and request(s) for investigation(s) going to the Office of the Arizona Attorney General. If in fact they have opened an investigation let’s keep them hot on the trail and encourage investigating all options of violations, including criminal.
Thank you for this opportunity, Sedona Eye.
Blah Blah Blah segner. Why would anyone go to a council meeting? So you could call them names? There is nothing to listen to but BS and fake news. If your that good then the members of the regional chamber should PAY their OWN bills.
The chamber of commerce pay their own bills? Now that’s a unique concept for the Sedona City Council to ponder. How about it council members? Isn’t it worth consideration maybe if for no other reason than to just to find out if there would be anything else for Sedona residents to complain about (except many uncontrolled traffic which we can attribute largely to inappropriate marketing by high priced amateurs.)
(Deleted by Editor)
Remember.. You Change Nothing!!
Decisions made last a lifetime. USfs closing some trails. Thanks Sedona councils. Stop advertising for people to come.
What trails are being closed? Overheard somebody say it was for mining that’s totally bogus,must be a Sierra clubber from Calstate on meth. Where are you Sedona crazies coming from? You get on a left wing email list & think that God’s speaking to you when reading the drivel. West Sedona trails are getting destroyed. Squatters in the forest need to go & no we don’t have to accommodate them. You want to accommodate let them sleep at your house & be sure you feed them and flush their toilets. Pay for their clothes, dentists, doctors. Then talk to me about accommodating after you learn if they appreciate and want your help. Why not swap with them for a real life learning experience? In the meantime what trails are being closed?
I think Slide Rock needs to be shut down. I’m tired of people parking in canyon and slipping in w/o paying. The tourists burned the canyon in 2014. Put an electronic toll plate reader at the entrance to Midgeley Bridge going up and at the Overlook area before switchbacks headed down on both ends and charge $20 a car each way. That’ll take care of freeloaders! It will cut down on drive throughs. Winner all.
To John Wilson, If there was any kind of real serious issue in Sedona that the AG was looking into don’t you think we’d have an answer by now??? Of course, we would. That was all BS and was never going anywhere.
They ride all over the crust off trail which locals know make the ground and the tree roots weak.
They bounce across tree roots on marked trail and “SHRED THE RED”.
The ring bells or yell for hikers to hurry up and move as they pass them in a trail of dust.
Close the trails , put the mountain bikers on a few trails and let them have at it with no worry of the hikers that do not want to hear warning bells or “TO YOUR LEFT”as they try to quietly commune with nature.
Yea, thats mean you Mountain Biker, you are not welcome here.
Drone enthusiast either. Go Drone in your neighborhood. I’m sure neighbors think you are annoying too.
It’s remarkable. You sound like a voice of authority @John Daniels W Sedona.
Surely it isn’t possible that you, in fact, are employed by City of Sedona and just happened to attend those special city council meetings? Nah! Couldn’t be. No employee at City Hall would lower themselves to even read Sedona Eye let alone make a comment – and under an alias?
It must be comforting to know that there’s the possibility besides KDO there’s yet another ally of JW and the regional chamber of commerce. YIPPEE!
There’s not a Democrat run town, city or state that hasn’t screwed the poor and middle class. It’s a LIE that Democrats help the poor. Democrats put the poor on plantations called Affordable Housing. Group the poor together, make them unable to move in to your house next door. Don’t let them own land or their homes but make them rent to Democrat landlords.
Don’t believe it? Look at Chicago, Detroit, the new NYC, San Francisco, Portland, LA, Stockton. Look at states like Illinois, California and Cities of dirty people contracting typhoid wlike happens in the poorest of poor countries globally. Thank Democrats for ruining Sedona by turning it in to a cheap tourist town owned by hotel franchises and cheap restaurants. You bring in people to ruin our trails and creeks and forests. Close the city. Let it heal.
First monsoon storm of the season just passed through! Uptown = NOT a good place to be. Fire Department trying to get into Sedona from Oak Creek Canyon had to drive SOUTH in NORTH BOUND lane because of traffic. Requested Sedona enforcement to attempt stopping traffic at the Y from going north.
See chamber scam artists might be able to fool the city council and city staff but thinking they can fool Mother Nature is another matter.
It’s still rockin’ and rollin’ out there. MN ain’t a happy camper!! Forgot maybe that new multimillion dollar deal that’s pending with city/chamber DESTINATION SERVICES will fix all these unintended consequences?? Don’t count on it. Ask Mother Nature.
Of course the city council and with city staff blessing (Asst. City Manager?) will recommend to use the presently tagged “slush fund” money to give to the regional chamber of commerce = allegedly to be used to modify business losses due to road improvements. DESTINATION SERVICES – VOILA! It’s a Done Deal – wait and see – and there’s NOTHING that can be done about it short of recalling the city council members who support this great giveaway and also removing the same from city staff. Would be interesting to be a fly on the wall at the scheduled “executive” meeting next Tuesday.
” If we can’t solve the traffic problem, we may as well be wrong in a way that’s good for us in the near term. Millions spent looks better because then we can say we need to spend even more in the future.”