Home » City Council, Community » Sedona Oak Creek Flooding is Serious Business with Eddie Maddock

Sedona Oak Creek Flooding is Serious Business with Eddie Maddock

SedonaEye.com columnist Eddie Maddock

SedonaEye.com columnist Eddie Maddock

Sedona AZ (October 16, 2015)Sedona Mayor and Members of the City Council, as you are probably aware, flooding in Sedona generally originates from two sources: (1) Summer monsoons; (2) Spring flooding resulting from El Nino conditions.

If you haven’t had the opportunity to view the two web links included here, time permitting you might find them of interest.

The first is a more recent flood occurrence with which most if not all of you might be familiar. It’s a video of the 9/10/2009 flood at Tlaquepaque resulting from a summer monsoon. Of course methods have since been implemented to hopefully mitigate damage from a similar occurrence but such a storm hasn’t yet materialized to actually test the effectiveness of the improvements.

The second link includes an article written by Sedona resident Steve DeVol, an eye witness to a 1993 flood. He was, at the time, a Sedona resident living off of Brewer Road at Trails End. Also during that storm a former Sedona Councilman, Charlie Crick and his family lived at that location. A Red Rock News front page article and photo depicted Charlie wading through waste-high water in Oak Creek, rescuing his mother-in-law, Dottie Balch, in the middle of the night, who together with her husband also resided along Oak Creek at Sycamore Cove, a former mobile home park now occupied by Los Abrigados. (photo and article not included here) Most likely Mayor Sandy will recall both of these incidents.

Recent predictions suggest El Nino conditions are likely, quite possibly the most potent in 50 years. This could produce record amounts of snow in Flagstaff. If, as has occurred in the past, warm spring rains cause a rapid thaw of all that snow, Oak Creek will be subjected to severe flooding such as occurred in 1993. A similar condition existed in 1978 at which time the low water crossing at Red Rock Crossing was washed out which was never restored. Of course it’s also possible flooding conditions will not materialize and we will be spared . . . this time.

Completely understanding the diligence and dedication with which the Community Plan Revision Task Force performed their job, it does remain a bit perplexing that with seasoned Sedona residents such as Mike Bower, Tom Sather, and Jim Eaton on that committee, none advised the other members on the task force of the potential hazards in conjunction with high density use – Community Focus Areas, at both Brewer Road and Schnebly Hill Road. And presently the expansion of Tlaquepaque North is under way.

It was with good reason the City Council approximately four years ago voted to rescind the idea of a creek walk and park in the exact area where severe flooding has occurred in the past, at both locations – Brewer Road and Schnebly Hill Road. Oak Creek has also changed course, in one instance causing flood waters to ravage homes and property in Copper Cliffs.

Understanding the enthusiasm with which two members of the Community Plan Task Force, now seated on the City Council, are aggressively pursuing implementation of the revised plan which spans a period of the next ten years, it raises the question of: “What’s the hurry?” That plan is not law. It is a set of guidelines. No more. Is it really prudent to pursue it to the extent major issues, and all of you know what they are – traffic number one and lack of a Master Drainage/Flood Control Plan, to mention a couple, continue to be kicked to the curb in favor of promoting expensive ideals, as approved by a very small voter turnout? And at what overall cost to incorporated Sedona in general?

imagine sedona community planIsn’t really the only justification for aggressive pursuit of adding to congestion to what is already a bottle neck in that area if you aren’t aware or haven’t been offered first hand evidence of potential serious consequences? Factual proof is herewith offered in the two web links.

In the event you choose to continue to ignore or avoid inadequacies of Sedona’s infrastructure prior to pursuing projects that will primarily serve to exacerbate the difficulties, will you be willing to take responsibility for negative end results? This, of course, also applies to encouraging premature implementation of gathering places throughout the entire city without benefit of mitigating and/or finding viable solutions to existing traffic problems.

Thank you for your consideration.

Eddie Maddock

February 21, 1993 Flood

Little Brooks Make Great Rivers – Creek Walks and Politics by Steve DeVol

Sedona, AZ  March 12, 2012   “Little brooks make great rivers”, says the fortune cookie proverb.  The only thing is the wisdom contained in this little nugget was 20 years too late. Read More

Read www.SedonaEye.com for daily news and interactive views!

Read www.SedonaEye.com for daily news and interactive views!

61 Comments

  1. This might sound like a stupid question, but as we understand it two areas, Schnebly and Brewer Rds. have been assigned to become something like community gathering spots? Is that correct? Why we ask is because as Sedona residents for not quite four years, we thought that portion of Sedona, Tlaquepaque to Hillside maybe, was designated as the “gallery district” and we always look forward to the first Friday gallery tours and encourage our out of town friends to visit for those events. Now why would there be another two spots in that already congested area to attract even more people?

    And just in the short time we’ve lived in Sedona the traffic has more than doubled and we no longer enjoy going out for dinner on weekends, shopping, or anything else for that matter that causes us to become caught up in traffic gridlock.

    The information in this article is very interesting and adds to our own questions about what will happen the next time flooding occurs in Sedona. The TV news this evening has been largely about floods in California already being attributed to the pending El Nino and quite likely a precursor to even more severe flooding. We hope whoever is in charge here takes this seriously. Thank you.

  2. ESM

    You are a grandstander…… Your concern for a sedona is secondary to showing us all how smart you are….. This reporting would be better served if you slipped this information to the city of Sedona without your grandstanding and fanfare

    But you must show us all how smart you think you are…. BTW didn’t know you were also a hydrologist.
    Furthermore you can’t plan for every weather event.. Siturations, damage etc will always occur no matter how well planning is..
    It’s a river…….. It will do as it does when circumstances warrent and all the planning in the world ain’t gonna change that..

    Get a grip and lay done your ego under the guise of purely a concerned citizen

  3. ESM says:

    @West sedona resident – Bash me all you want. I didn’t create the videos or did you bother to take a look at them?z

    It was because of a request that my e-mail to city council, city manager, and director of community development appear publicly. You were NOT a direct recipient of my e-mail.

  4. PS from ESM says:

    Originally and specifically the above article was sent as an e-mail to the following:

    Mayor Sandy Moriarty
    Vice Mayor Mark DiNunzio
    Council Members John Martinez, Angela LeFevre, Jon Thompson, and Scott Jablow
    City Manager Justin Clifford
    Assistant City Manager Karen Daines
    Director of Development Audree Juhlin

    The day the e-mail went out there was a glitch in the City’s system as indicated by a notice from the Mail Administrator. Two recipients have acknowledged receipt.

  5. Come on Jessica. ESM has for years reported facts and did so without recongition.
    Long before you got here. We had the program Backfire. ESM is a community Leader. Come on and get a grip. Do you really think the public does see your negativity.
    I won’t ever vote for you again. When your term up? Can’t wait.

  6. It’s a creek. As someone who took classes in hydrology and geology and related fields, I recommend before casting stones or suggesting they be moved, relaid, or otherwise ignored that you understand that “dams” – a visual that lay people might understand today – interfering with normal flows or thinking one can safely prepare for the mighty water to seek its level- is not ecologically sound. Not erecting buildings or highways in flood zones is the correct visual. Sorry developers – not every Sedona rock is buildable.

  7. Jim L says:

    Brillant Watson @West sedona resident

    BTW didn’t know you were also a hydrologist.

    It doesn’t take a Hydrologist to fiqure out:
    1. Rain = Water
    2.Water runs down hill
    3. Water and diarrhea both flow down hill.
    5. Diarrhea is something your mouth is aware of.

  8. Kiva Serene says:

    Liked! & video showing how good police here are & shared with lots of Sedona friends & family asking if they knew about this. Can you get easy share? I what happened to people in video???Guess ok after nearly dying!!! rain this wkend means be carefully & tsay off the rocks. Namaste!!!

  9. Pam says:

    Thanks for the laugh @JimL.

  10. Donald W. says:

    @West sedona resident = Jessica(?) You are correct about one thing:

    ” It’s a river…….. It will do as it does when circumstances warrant and all the planning in the world ain’t gonna change that.”

    Astute observation, Madam!

    And all the more reason for this critical information to surface. It’s possible council members new to the area, including the City Manager and City attorney, weren’t aware of the history.

    So, let us pray (oh, but you don’t believe in prayer) – so let the rest of us pray that the other members of our elected City Council aren’t quite so cavalier about a serious situation and think about the wisdom, or lack thereof, to spend thousands – maybe millions of dollars – to create perilous public gathering places.

    Holy crap, lady, you are a trip and a half and living in someplace outside the universe. Please hop aboard Bell Rock on the next scheduled trip to outer space.

  11. Holy Cow says:

    What the heck’s with that West Sedona Resident person? Complaining the information offered should have remained at City Hall? If that doesn’t beat all of being “stoopid” then what does?

    Heads up WSR – all communication at City Hall is PUBLIC INFORMATION! This article just made it easier for us to know what the heck is really going on. That dumb remark certainly justifies the doubt and suspicion that lurks throughout Sedona pertaining to transparency! Was it the intent of the community plan task force to hide the very real Oak Creek flood possibilities? Wasn’t it just a couple weeks ago first responders to a tragedy at Midgley Bridge were temporarily trapped by an unexpected flash flood.

    Mrs. Maddock made it very clear the prediction for a strong El Nino wouldn’t assure Oak Creek flooding. Read it you “stooopid” resident in West Sedona:

    “. Of course it’s also possible flooding conditions will not materialize and we will be spared . . . this time.”

    To claim Mrs. M was “grandstanding” by offering the testimonial of Mr. DeVol in addition to the three videos is utter nonsense since she clearly identified the source. You appear to have major problems, WSR, and really should consider seeking help IMO.

  12. @West Sedona Resident. Could the real reason for your current rant, specifically that this information should have remained with the council members receiving the e-mail (which according to Maddocks’ mail list didn’t include you) have an underlying concern? For example, by opening the flood gates (no pun intended) for the public to be informed that stupid decisions being considered regarding providing recreational activities on public property, will that, in fact, be an admission of potential city liability in the event of disaster?

    Although hushed-up, isn’t it true the city was sued by at least one particular business establishment during the Brewer-Tlaquapaque flood? Hush ma own mouf –

    Now that it’s become abundantly clear City Council, City Staff, and hopefully the public is aware of reckless decisions being pushed to number one positions on the list of priorities, so are the chances of City of Sedona to have the socks sued off them.

    Oh, how sweet would that be?

  13. Bill, VOC says:

    Good Sunday morning Sedona Arizona! Red Rock Xing – not repaired. Cathedral – Bell – Capital- Canyon fire damage- list goes on. Infrastructure not mandated a priority and why is that? If Keep Sedona Beautiful pressed hard for infrastructure then we could pat ourselves on backs. Get back to business of cleaning up not messing up. Good friends of mine have been led astray. Unfortunate. KSB, get ADOT to take down all those unnecessary road signs on 179. Clean up visuals if you need a job.

  14. Greg says:

    There were retail outlets at Tlaq where there will be retail outlets! The new will be better than the before! Let it go! If it floods it gets cleaned up!

  15. Carol N says:

    @Greg, this isn’t about Tlaquepaque, which was there since around 1976. What the problem is the incorporated Sedona community plan is calling for something like community focus areas throughout the city, two of which will be at Brewer & Schnebly Hill Roads. Then the one at Schnebly Road is to include some sort of creek walk and possibly a park.

    Right now that area is such a bottle neck and what will it be like with more areas to socialize? Tlaquepaque, as beautiful as it is, serves well as the heart of Sedona. It seems the flood in the video had to do with bad city planning when the drainage didn’t properly come down from the Soldier Wash – bad engineering because historically there had never been floods at the Hummingbird House or down that section. Bad deal.

    True, Sedona needs to clean up it’s act and get professional engineers to work on drainage system throughout area. Slow down implementing revised plan until infrastructure can accommodate it. New addition at Tlaquepaque, very tasteful, but large addition in small area. More cars and pedestrian traffic. Add activity centers at Brewer & Schnebly and toss in unexpected rise of Oak Creek and what will you have? Think about it.

  16. Charlie says:

    And Good Sunday Morning to u-2, @Bill, VOC. Refreshing to read an upbeat comment, and containing positive suggestions as well.

    I’m in total agreement with your suggestions about Keep Sedona Beautiful’s mission and it’s a shame the leaders of that previously highly respected organization didn’t have the stamina and backbone to resist the obvious infiltration of unnamed individuals that led KSB to take a wrong path and attempt to push the national monument through the back door. It might just take a while for them to reclaim credibility if, in fact, it can ever be done. However, the suggestions you make about ugly signs and encouraging adequate infrastructure could be a beginning.

    An aside – too bad the Tlaquepaque expansion didn’t include the gaudy New Age Center. Does anyone else find it ugly and offensive, so contrary to compatibility with Sedona? Compare it with the Garland strip if you want a good example.

  17. J. J. says:

    @Bill, VOC

    Red Rock Crossing existed in the 70’s and prior when there were few cars. It was a low-level crossing of a couple of boards you drove over to get to Verde Valley School Road from Red Rock crossing road off of Upper Red Rock Loop Road.

    The flooding in Tlaqupaque was so bad that the Army Corps of Engineers actually used dynamite just south of the crossing to make the creek channel deeper and therefore, less prone to flooding. After that was done, there could be no way to put the crossing back in. Who’d want it anyway? Everyone had to DRIVE THROUGH the creek. Can you imagine what that would look like now?

    There is a bridge across the creek in the LaMera subdivision, which is used by emergency vehicles. There’s strictly NO TRESPASSING in the subdivision and those walking, riding bikes or ORV through are met by the Sheriff.

    Red Rock Crossing is not within Sedona City limits, and therefore, NOT a part of it’s infrastructure. It is also in Yavapai County, and the traffic issues are in Coconino County. Here you have the issue of Too Many Bosses, Not ENough Workers. One county does not want to spend their road budgets to solve an issue that’s not part of their jurisdiction.

    Stop thinking there will EVER be another Red Rock Crossing. There won’t be – unless you can afford one of those lots in LaMerra and build a home there. Just stop with the Red Rock crossing dream. Aint going to happen.

  18. Oh thnk you JJ for your insight

    That federal government would probally use the NM money to purchase AMMO for those communist mail carrier people to keep us Sedona folk subdued and controlled by the Feds…

    Good insight JJ
    Your Tea Party mentality is right on the money…
    Keep your eyes open around town for infidels disquised as government employees..I hear they want to take over that red rock crossing bridge to carry out covert ops…

  19. Responding to the comment about potential liability – good point. Since the city council and city manager have now presumably received the videos, which without question bring up valid points, what would the city’s legal responsibility be if they continue on the fast track with these projects? (Brewer & Schnebly city sponsored community focus areas)

  20. sharlett says:

    @ Charlie

    There were never any un-named “obvious infiltration of unnamed individuals” who started the National Monument land grab routine many months ago. Let me give you a pretty full yet short list of the culprits: Rob Adams, Ernie Strauch, Tom O’Halloran, Barbara Litrell. Then just look at the entire list of board members of KSB for another portion of the list who tried to pull the wool over the greater community.

    @ J. J. Where did you ever come up with the idea that ” the Army Corps of Engineers actually used dynamite just south of the crossing to make the creek channel deeper and therefore, less prone to flooding. ” ??? The flooding of Tlaquepaque was in 2009 so How come no one knew of what the Army Corps was doing?

  21. Drew says:

    What business sued after flood and what flood ? How settled? Why the big secret? Taxpayer $$ paid the bill..

  22. In the Know says:

    @Drew – Most law suits, especially with the city, are silenced but you might check with the owners of the Hummingbird House, a Sedona designated historical site. But settlements are frequently made and agreed to contingent upon remaining “silent” which was also the case with certain former city employees. (NOT referring to a present city council member)

  23. J. J. says:

    @ Sharlett

    It was in 1978 that the Army Corp of Engineers came around our neighborhood and blasted out the channel. Probably before you even knew there was such a thing as Sedona. Before blasting out the channel the Center of the New Age (when it was still a 4-unit apartment building) and Tlaquepaque got flooded so bad they had nearly 2 feet of water inside the buildings. Something had to be done, so they made the channel deeper. If you look at the area around La Merra you can still see where this was done.

    Many businesses should have sued since the city engineers wrecked the natural swale from Thunder Mountain down to the creek near Tlaqupaque. It seemed some of the water was directly diverted into businesses not only on Coffee Pot, but other places as well. Very bad job.

    @ West Sedona Resident

    I am NOT a part of any tea party movement. Unlike you, I keep up-to-date with what is happened to our country. From not having any say about a National Monument in Sedona to having the police present at our tiny high school, to unwanted and unneeded street lights, to having part of our forest that was traded for non-profit use to be developed into the West Gateway – our Sedona leadership has gone WAY off track.

    And I find it disturbing that our federal government is spending taxpayer money on guns and ammo and arming post offices, social security offices, the IRS, and many other federal agencies. It’s disturbing that you think it’s OK.

    I’m really beginning to wonder about you and your mental health. Someone earlier said you should get some help – or find someone to talk to. Your strong-armed bullying tactics are not only unbecoming, they are also affecting the way you distance yourselves from others with your negative thinking.

  24. Good information @JJ. What you offer makes sense because the floods down Coffee Pot, Little Elf and other areas certainly were attributed to those newer West Sedona subdivisions at higher elevations and in addition messed up the Soldiers Wash that channels down to Brewer. No floods at that paint store, Hummingbird House, or that area before. Even more evidence of the badly needed master drainage plan providing the city gets engineers that know what they’re doing. Also it might be well to mention that our property taxes paid to the county, a very large portion at least from Coconino County, is returned to the city for flood control. Wonder if it’s actually used for that purpose?

  25. Donna Varney says:

    @J.J. Thank you, you are very well informed. Do you remember the locations within the city that the city moved the waterways?

    I know of one in Kachina Subdivision. I recall one over by the andante area. A few engineers had concerns about this. Hoping you remember.

    Thanks

  26. Sheri says:

    Just couldn’t resist when I read the J.J. comment that is so factual.

    @ J. J. Wow! how long have you lived here? And by your words it is clear you live outside Sedona. I still ask for proof that Army Corps of Engineers actually “blasted out the channel”. That is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard regarding Oak Creek….and wondering how many think this actually happened. Where is your Proof?

    To be clear: I’ve been here since 1958…..so I can only say I’ve known this little town since then and actually well before your landing. Actually used to fish the creek at a friends home in 1953. You?

    You write “Before blasting out the channel the Center of the New Age (when it was still a 4-unit apartment building) and Tlaquepaque got flooded so bad they had nearly 2 feet of water inside the buildings. Something had to be done”

    Your time frame is so far off base that it is laughable. Come on J.J. Get up to speed on actual history. Connect the dots – Please! The “Center of the New Age (when it was still a 4-unit apartment building” didn’t exist in ’78.

    Our Council and City could have/should have taken on the issue of drainage as their number 1….yet the put the regional chamber and the paying for the teen center and then ……….OMG………all the money they give to the beggars for City Money.

    When the creek floods – it just floods and where will the City be then?

    @West sedona resident -what an idiot statement.

    Main Question: How will this City deal with floods and protect our citizens?

  27. J. J. says:

    Sheri, Obviously I’ve offended you in some way, and for that, I’m sorry.

    Yep, a group came here, set up some cones, blasted. That was in the summer of ’78 and they said they were from the Army Corp of Engineers. Sorry but I really don’t remember anything else, but I do remember that because I thought it was stupid, but it seems to have solved the bulk of the problems.

    Seems to me the Center of the New Age came along sometime in the 80s, but before that, the building that houses the Center used to be a 4 unit, 3 bedroom apt building. It was owned by the Woo’s, same as Woo ranch, which was bought out by the Federal Govt under Amendment 12 for the water rights some years back – same time the Bradshaw Ranch and Cleeves Ranch were bought up.

    You are absolutely correct about the City. Time for change.

    Please accept my sincere apologizes for not being more clear.

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  29. Old Timers says:

    @J.J. – you are correct. The original apartment building, formerly gray block and presently new age center, was there for a long time. Coconino County records could probably confirm the time frame. And we also recall the corp of engineers having done something here but not the details. We thank you for jogging our memories but most of all appreciate that this serious issue has surfaced in a very timely matter considering the winter weather forecast. Thank you.

  30. The following quote is from the reference given in the above article and maybe has something to do with the confusion about the Corp of Engineers?

    “The Army Corps of Engineers has issues with construction in waterways: ‘CWA Section 404 establishes a program to regulate the discharge of dredged and fill material into waters of the United States, including wetlands.'””

    This brings up the possibility that maybe C of E was just under consideration or did they actually take action? Just wondering.

  31. Isn’t the really important thing here to stick to the subject at hand which is: Will those in charge (city council) actually get a handle on what’s important? That being Sedona’s drainage system, along with traffic control, should be number one concern instead of the pie-in-the-sky BS about sweet little gathering places for the minorities of kiddies needing a place to play?

    J.J. has offered enormous historic insight and the genuine apology about having inadvertently insulted some temperamental contributor was very generous. This city council and staff should take heed and learn from past mistakes and not shirk at them as though they didn’t happen.

    Jump off your white stallion, J. Thompson, and quit preaching about the merits of the chamber of commerce and lame committee deciding product development for Sedona and how they need more funding. Your obsession with the community plan is obnoxious. It’s a ten year plan – not a mandate to create your monstrosities tomorrow – including the betrayal of using the Cultural Park property for a purpose other than what the USFS land exchange was intended. OMG how many more years must we endure your massive ego?

    What Sedona needs is common sense to lead to rectifying adequate funding for sensible flood control and simple every-day amenities that maintain a sustainable quality of life for those living here as well as tourists. What’s so difficult to understand about that?

  32. Vet that idiot parking meter idea. Looks bad. Stupid idea.

    Open up the meetings & get real pros opinions, not some stupid city jackals. Ignorant ideas. A joke to hire a few people to write tickets & start a bureaucratic fine/collection nightmare.

    Listen you jackals, get your brains off the seat of your chairs & insert behind eyeballs. And that idiot elevator idea IS NOT required by handicap codes & I KNOW THIS AS A FACT. IT’S MY BUSINESS.

    Listen you people in Sedona, there’s something wrong with you & how you go about business.

    ELEVATOR IN 100 PLUS HEAT???? Get somebody stuck in that & see how long it takes to cook? Is that the plan?

    Do something about your insanity. You business people better get your act together. WHO OWNS THE ELEVATOR COMPANY OR INTEREST? WHO OWNS PARKING METER INTERESTS? Nobody installs parking meters, they use self pay boxes. ONE BOX WITH PAPER THAT COLLECTS PAYMENTS. CHECK OUT PHOENIX STREETS YOU IDIOTS.

  33. George says:

    @Chris Reese, Phoenix, R U for real? Since you seems to object so irrationally to what goes on in Sedona, isn’t it your choice that you needn’t ever come up here? Simple solution to your over-the-top rant?

    Parking meters should have been installed years ago. Jeep tour patrons tie up prime spaces for hours while taking their sight-seeing trips. How fair is that to uptown shops that lose business because people can’t find places to park?

    Get a grip before high blood pressure strokes you out.

  34. steve Segner says:

    Chris,
    The new meters will only take credit cards, no money to pick up.
    You can add more money if you are late to the meter from your cell phone.
    The idea is to get more people to use a parking space not the person taking a three hour jeep tour.
    The meters will really help the uptown merchants. It is a great idea and the city will have $200,000 + to use for more parking or traffic control on weekends, It’s a win/win.

    Steve

  35. @George says:

    Here’s the deal, George. Chris Reese, Phoenix, is probably a member of Sedona’s Regional Chamber of Commerce which, like all “regional” Sedona Chamber (in name only) members outside incorporated Sedona City Limits, become entitled to a voice on all political issues within Sedona City Hall whether or not they contribute by virtue of collecting city sales or bed taxes or if by making taxable city purchases within the confines of our really limited legitimate jurisdiction.

    Who would have “thunk” that members of a “regional” Chamber of Commerce, collecting virtually millions of public tax dollars over the years, would have a green light to authorize their members, regardless of where they are – Phoenix, Las Vegas, Lake Havasu – you name it – and allow them to submit and most likely even have consideration given to the input from outsiders like Chris Reese? Go figure!

  36. I highly agree with You about J. Thompson, but be nice, don’t You see Him posturing to be our next Mayor? There is no doubt in My mind that’s what He’s up to and what a nightmare that will be. Community Plan first, drainage, traffic, etc. last, if ever.

  37. Robert O says:

    @Chris Reese, Phoenix

    Right On Chris! I’ve been part time kitchen worker for 3 years and love to park in front of one of the stores down the block. My boss tells me not to but I park way down the road out of sight. Since I only work a few hours at a time it makes the most sense to me. If they put those lollipop meters up, I’d have to find some other place to park.

  38. S.O.S. says:

    Watching Sedona City Council meetings is very depressing. At the beginning of the meetings they produce a beautiful visual of the original Vision Statement. From then on all goes down hill.

    Rarely is there anything on the council agenda that supports that Vision Statement. Oh sure they attempt to justify it by continuing to support the arts – which is fine – but none of it is going to matter as one by one nails are being pounded into Sedona’s coffin by “big city” ideas being pushed by especially the last two city councils.

    They make a mockery of the Vision Statement by taking actions that are diametrically in opposition to the very words being spoken. The recent deceitful attempt by a previous city council to make a backroom deal with Keep Sedona Beautiful for a National Monument designation. Ha! Based on the true hear and now such a notion only adds insult to injury. Nothing more than dirty politics, the very same kind that got this present city council elected in the first place.

    Sedona is being controlled by a very select hand-picked group of people. All one need do is watch the council meetings. Over-development, over-saturation by day trippers, and what other activities totally contradictory to the reason Sedona incorporated in the first place? It’s anyone’s guess but the point is when leaders continue to ignore issues such as the very real and serious implication of the pending El Nino it’s unfortunate we can’t pack them all into a canoe to ride the rapids the next time Oak Creek rises.

  39. magickj says:

    It was last March when the creek flooded last. My friend, who lives right on the creek, lost her backyard to the water and had to hire workers to remove the sand and debris to get back her yard.

    This was also the during the same time some “vandal” (AKA terrorist) cut the fiber optic cable and no one could use their phone. Police could not take 911 calls, hospitals were unable to access files, and the grocery stores closed because they could not ring up sales. It was all very weird — and curious — since some businesses (Heart of Sedona, Enchantment, Public Library) still had internet access. How does that work? Almost the entire state did not have internet except those guys. hm.

    We were never told who cut the lines – matter of fact, this fiber cable cutting issue has been going on all over the country and in other countries too. It’s so bad in the SF bay area that there’s a reward offered for any information leading to the arrest of person(s) responsible.

    What would have happened if some poor soul got caught in a serious flood, but could call no one for help?

    Not only do we have to keep the creek clear, we also need a backup for when other disasters strike.

  40. Just Sayin' says:

    @Magickj

    I can see a big problem if mountain run off came down the street and flowed onto your “friends” yard. But, living ON THE CREEK, you have to expect some problem unless you live by Back o Beyond where the houses are raised up high. Just Sayin’

  41. @magickj – interesting input and excellent food for thought. Makes one wonder why these things weren’t taken into consideration during the revision of the Community Plan. Why was consideration for a creek walk/park resurrected when it had been nixed so many times in the past? Why have Sedona planners and council members deviated so far from upholding the original vision statement and allowed over development? Why, why, why? And the beat goes on.

  42. @Just Sayin’ = You said a mouthful!

    Dumb, dumb idea for city to even consider spending one single penny on a creek walk/park.

  43. magickj says:

    @ Just Sayin’
    I am sure my friend doesn’t mind the occasional wipe outs of her yard – the rest of the time it’s perfect and was designed by a local developer as his own home. she’s lived there about 7 or 8 years, and has had to redo her back yard a few times due to the creek. We’re all happy to be here.

    Why did you put quotes around the word friend? You think I’m talking about myself? Oh I wish I had the $$$ to buy a home like that. I’m happy to have my little bungalow – I have a great view and I love this town.

    We just need to make better decisions, and we need to help our council members make the right decisions.

  44. Cal Johnson says:

    If what Sharlett writes (October 18th) is correct, that both Barbara Litrell and Rob Adams are part of the force behind this National Monument movement, then they quite possibly head the list of the most hypocritical people to ever land in Sedona.

    When both served on City Council, it was obvious they were the backbone of the effort to award the chamber of commerce that ridiculous (and expensive) contract to promote Sedona. The result of that high-priced exercise is evidenced at least every weekend as the two state highways accessing Sedona become more and more clogged with day trip traffic, much of it not even stopping in Sedona (as if they could find a parking place) but on the way to Oak Creek Canyon.

    And these two people are interested in protecting the quality, beauty, environment, blah, blah, blah of Sedona? Very funny but who’s laughing. Well, Jennifer Wesselhoff for one as she stakes claim to yet another $1.5 million in the current budget. Guess she didn’t have much of a problem finding out what to do with that money. Does anyone else remember when Rob asked her at a council meeting what she would do with all that money now that she had it? Apparently she’s the only one that can answer that since no official audit or accounting has never been demanded.

    Such a deal! And these two people, Litrell and Adams, are now wanting to protect the entire Verde Valley because they are so caring? The only upside to that is maybe it would ax once and for all the nonsense of giving the chamber all that money because a “National Monument” would be self promoting.

  45. Just Sayin' says:

    @magickj

    I would appreciate you replying to my question, does your friend (removed the quotes) have the flooding problem from the creek or runoff from the road???? If the problem is from the creek how can you blame the City Council, County Supervisors or the President of the US.

  46. Just thinkin’ about how rude Just Sayin’ is to continue sniping at magickj. Seems magickj made it very clear the friend he mentioned lives on private creekside property and apparently doesn’t hold City Council, County Supervisors or President of U.S. accountable for flooding conditions. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

    What this article is about refers to the responsibility of government entities for creating dangerous situations in a flood plain that can cause public harm such as overcrowded conditions which might hinder evacuation during emergency situations or even worse. How difficult is it for you to understand that?

    @magickj – all Eye readers aren’t as dense as Just Sayin’ and West sedona resident.

  47. magickj says:

    Since I don’t live there, I don’t know how to attribute the flooding – and obviously, if the city is diverting runoff water the creek, isn’t that part of the problem.

    Please don’t put words in my mouth. I have never blamed anyone for the creek rising. I said the city engineers had made several “improvements” which took away the natural swale from Thunder Mtn down to the creek. This is a statement of fact, since a lot of the “work” they did to divert the water has been repaired (somewhat – or until the next micro-burst at the base of Thunder Mtn).

    I’d appreciate you being kinder.

  48. Joshua says:

    Of course magickj is correct – the city has performed incompetent engineering not only with the Thunder Mountain swale but look at the portion of 89A they took possession of, less than one mile, which they so poorly redesigned. They absolutely should be held responsible for damage to private property when they create the problem.

    Isn’t it true that mortgaged property within a designated flood plain requires additional flood insurance which quite possibly covers only the house itself but not the property?

    The news continues to repeat potential repercussions from El Nino so having it brought up here and now should send a loud message to city council, land use planners and staff. The question is will they listen and actually hear it?

  49. @just saying

    As you can tell there are some really super intelligent people here on Sedona eye…
    (At least they think they are). But all they seem to do is blame and complain…

    Some all same all.

  50. Julie says:

    but @west sedoBa resident I like you

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