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	Comments on: VOCA Board Stung by Redstone Restaurant Expose	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Kitty Carlisle		</title>
		<link>https://sedonaeye.com/voca-board-stung-by-redstone-restaurant-expose/comment-page-1/#comment-125676</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kitty Carlisle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Apr 2016 13:16:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://sedonaeye.com/?p=34802#comment-125676</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thank goodness I do not live in VOC. Another money hungry Board of wanna-bees who got a little power for the first time in their lives and now do not know how to manage ANYTHING. Basically f***** Village Idiots. Why would ANYONE live in the Village?!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank goodness I do not live in VOC. Another money hungry Board of wanna-bees who got a little power for the first time in their lives and now do not know how to manage ANYTHING. Basically f***** Village Idiots. Why would ANYONE live in the Village?!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Too Corrupt right now		</title>
		<link>https://sedonaeye.com/voca-board-stung-by-redstone-restaurant-expose/comment-page-1/#comment-110008</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Too Corrupt right now]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2015 16:14:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://sedonaeye.com/?p=34802#comment-110008</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[We don&#039;t have enough business.
The Red Rock Road Enhancement Maintenance District(sid) was formed as the first public panel in AZ so they are trying a new angle of power. They are a special improvement district with the power of a board of Supervisors. They are already filing lawsuits. More to follow.
Big Park Wastewater, another story coming up soon.
VOCA, standby.
Big Park Council, no longer made up of homeowners associations, just groups of three and up. 
There are homeowners associations of 100,000 people back east and they run just fine. We simply need to reign it all in and have accountability and transparency and we are working on that.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We don&#8217;t have enough business.<br />
The Red Rock Road Enhancement Maintenance District(sid) was formed as the first public panel in AZ so they are trying a new angle of power. They are a special improvement district with the power of a board of Supervisors. They are already filing lawsuits. More to follow.<br />
Big Park Wastewater, another story coming up soon.<br />
VOCA, standby.<br />
Big Park Council, no longer made up of homeowners associations, just groups of three and up.<br />
There are homeowners associations of 100,000 people back east and they run just fine. We simply need to reign it all in and have accountability and transparency and we are working on that.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Long Time Resident		</title>
		<link>https://sedonaeye.com/voca-board-stung-by-redstone-restaurant-expose/comment-page-1/#comment-110002</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Long Time Resident]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2015 14:05:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://sedonaeye.com/?p=34802#comment-110002</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Sharlett

What a great idea! Then you won&#039;t have as much to complain about with the Chamber because that would being more of their members within the city limits.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Sharlett</p>
<p>What a great idea! Then you won&#8217;t have as much to complain about with the Chamber because that would being more of their members within the city limits.</p>
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		<title>
		By: SAY WHAT?		</title>
		<link>https://sedonaeye.com/voca-board-stung-by-redstone-restaurant-expose/comment-page-1/#comment-110001</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SAY WHAT?]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2015 13:50:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://sedonaeye.com/?p=34802#comment-110001</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Time for VOC to incorporate? @sharlett
 
She must be joking.  If her name was unfamiliar one might think she was a new reader of Sedona Eye but her regular comments say that isn&#039;t so.

Her suggestion can only mean she wants Villagers to be as miserable as Sedona. If ever there was a reason NOT to incorporate Sedona is a glaring example.

A clear case of  misery likes company. Sharlett, tend to your own affairs. We don&#039;t need your stupid advice.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Time for VOC to incorporate? @sharlett</p>
<p>She must be joking.  If her name was unfamiliar one might think she was a new reader of Sedona Eye but her regular comments say that isn&#8217;t so.</p>
<p>Her suggestion can only mean she wants Villagers to be as miserable as Sedona. If ever there was a reason NOT to incorporate Sedona is a glaring example.</p>
<p>A clear case of  misery likes company. Sharlett, tend to your own affairs. We don&#8217;t need your stupid advice.</p>
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		<title>
		By: sharlett		</title>
		<link>https://sedonaeye.com/voca-board-stung-by-redstone-restaurant-expose/comment-page-1/#comment-109988</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sharlett]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2015 04:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://sedonaeye.com/?p=34802#comment-109988</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Barb,

Just maybe it is time to incorporate?   Just a thought of how to clean up the VOC mess.  VOC incorporates as their own entity and not a part of city of Sedona.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Barb,</p>
<p>Just maybe it is time to incorporate?   Just a thought of how to clean up the VOC mess.  VOC incorporates as their own entity and not a part of city of Sedona.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Barb		</title>
		<link>https://sedonaeye.com/voca-board-stung-by-redstone-restaurant-expose/comment-page-1/#comment-109957</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Barb]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2015 21:17:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://sedonaeye.com/?p=34802#comment-109957</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Time for an update. 
1. Is it really true that not a dime of the HOA assessment goes to support the golf course? Does the golf course pay rent to use the VOCA building? I don&#039;t think so. Who pays the taxes? Who pays for the parking lot (used primarily by the golfers) expenses and repairs? Obviously, the golf course is not completely self supporting. Refer to the budget.

2. Thinking logically, the restaurant would not exist if the golf course was not there. The HOA department is supporting the restaurant. While the annual financial drain has decreased some, the restaurant is still costing homeowners. Refer to the budgeted loss shown on the February 2015 financial summary. Again, how is the golf course financially independent of the HOA funds when the golfers need the restaurant?

3. VOCA is now divided into HOA business (management contracted to HOA management company in Prescott), Golf business (managed by VOCA employees), Park (financially supported by homeowners) and the Restaurant (contract managed but financially supported by homeowners). Refer to budget.

4.  The golf department is making a great profit, or so it would seem if you listen to the messages from the board. The economy has turned around and there is lots of outside play. Of course is makes sense to move the restaurant expense and management to the golf department. The homeowners should not be saddled with the restaurant expense. At the very least, get honest that the golf course is not standing on its own financially.

5. Take the story Mr. Wood wrote about how the board handled the restaurant decision and just change the word &quot;restaurant&quot; to &quot;HOA management company.&quot;   In my opinion, the board has and continues to act in violation of laws and bylaws. The reserve fund is being built back up. What is next?

6. And that $180 per year? What do you get? Well, an average condo development in VOCA pays about $22,000 per year to VOCA in annual dues. What do they get? They get told by VOCA what color they are allowed to paint their buildings. They don&#039;t get a golf membership discount anymore. The condo development pays their own management company to enforce CC&#038;Rs. That $22,000 would got a long way toward maintenance. But instead, it goes to VOCA. 

7. My opinion, VOCA was a good idea 40 years ago when the early homeowners all played golf and there were many empty lots. There are few lots left to be concerned about building permits. There are county ordinances and each of the 25 VOCA subdivisions are capable of managing their own neighborhood. VOCA is outdated. Why do we need to put up with a board of directors who discredit homeowners who exercise freedom of speech? Why do we need to put up with threats and bullying? The only way and HOA works well is if the board can be trusted to do the right thing. But first we have to find candidates who know what the right thing is. It is getting more difficult all the time.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Time for an update.<br />
1. Is it really true that not a dime of the HOA assessment goes to support the golf course? Does the golf course pay rent to use the VOCA building? I don&#8217;t think so. Who pays the taxes? Who pays for the parking lot (used primarily by the golfers) expenses and repairs? Obviously, the golf course is not completely self supporting. Refer to the budget.</p>
<p>2. Thinking logically, the restaurant would not exist if the golf course was not there. The HOA department is supporting the restaurant. While the annual financial drain has decreased some, the restaurant is still costing homeowners. Refer to the budgeted loss shown on the February 2015 financial summary. Again, how is the golf course financially independent of the HOA funds when the golfers need the restaurant?</p>
<p>3. VOCA is now divided into HOA business (management contracted to HOA management company in Prescott), Golf business (managed by VOCA employees), Park (financially supported by homeowners) and the Restaurant (contract managed but financially supported by homeowners). Refer to budget.</p>
<p>4.  The golf department is making a great profit, or so it would seem if you listen to the messages from the board. The economy has turned around and there is lots of outside play. Of course is makes sense to move the restaurant expense and management to the golf department. The homeowners should not be saddled with the restaurant expense. At the very least, get honest that the golf course is not standing on its own financially.</p>
<p>5. Take the story Mr. Wood wrote about how the board handled the restaurant decision and just change the word &#8220;restaurant&#8221; to &#8220;HOA management company.&#8221;   In my opinion, the board has and continues to act in violation of laws and bylaws. The reserve fund is being built back up. What is next?</p>
<p>6. And that $180 per year? What do you get? Well, an average condo development in VOCA pays about $22,000 per year to VOCA in annual dues. What do they get? They get told by VOCA what color they are allowed to paint their buildings. They don&#8217;t get a golf membership discount anymore. The condo development pays their own management company to enforce CC&amp;Rs. That $22,000 would got a long way toward maintenance. But instead, it goes to VOCA. </p>
<p>7. My opinion, VOCA was a good idea 40 years ago when the early homeowners all played golf and there were many empty lots. There are few lots left to be concerned about building permits. There are county ordinances and each of the 25 VOCA subdivisions are capable of managing their own neighborhood. VOCA is outdated. Why do we need to put up with a board of directors who discredit homeowners who exercise freedom of speech? Why do we need to put up with threats and bullying? The only way and HOA works well is if the board can be trusted to do the right thing. But first we have to find candidates who know what the right thing is. It is getting more difficult all the time.</p>
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		<title>
		By: The only constant is VOCA		</title>
		<link>https://sedonaeye.com/voca-board-stung-by-redstone-restaurant-expose/comment-page-1/#comment-56897</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The only constant is VOCA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2014 01:46:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://sedonaeye.com/?p=34802#comment-56897</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Is the Current Village of Oak Creek Association Board of Directors Violating the Arizona Open Meeting Law for HOAs?
The purpose of the AZ HOA law is to enable communication with the members of the association.
VOCA board deliberations that are not open to the membership are destructive as they:
1. Foster distrust, 2. Give an image of secrecy, 3. Thwart input from members, 4. Prevent a dialogue between
membership and the VOCA board, 5. Doesn’t allow communication with the membership.
THE ARIZONA HOA OPEN MEETING LAW
http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/33/01804.htm&#038;Title=33&#038;DocType=ARS
§33-1804. Open meetings; exceptions
“A. Notwithstanding any provision in the declaration, bylaws or other documents to the contrary, all meetings of the association and
board of directors are open to all members of the association or any person designated by a member in writing as the member’s representative
and all members or designated representatives so desiring shall be permitted to attend and speak at an appropriate time
during the deliberations and proceedings. The board may place reasonable time restrictions on those persons speaking during the meeting but shall permit a member or member’s designated representative to speak before the board takes formal action on an item under discussion in addition to any other opportunities to speak. The board shall provide for a reasonable number of persons to speak on each
side of an issue. Any portion of a meeting may be closed only if that closed portion of the meeting is limited to consideration of one or more of the following:”
1. Legal advice from an attorney for the board or the association.
2. Pending or contemplated litigation.
3. Personal, health or financial information about an individual member of the association, an individual employee of the association ....
4. Matters relating to the job performance of, compensation of, health records of or specific complaints against an individual employee of the association ....
B-4 “Any quorum of the board of directors that meets informally to discuss association business, including workshops, shall comply with the open meeting and notice provisions of this section without regard to whether the board votes or takes any action on any matter at that informal meeting.”
C. “...notice to members of meetings of the board of directors shall be given at least forty-eight hours in advance of the meeting by newsletter, conspicuous posting or any other reasonable means as determined by the board of directors.
“It is generally held that the open meeting law applies to informal, casual, or work sessions which include attendees resulting in a board quorum.”
http://www.davismiles.com/homeowners-association-open-meeting-law/Why discuss the AZ HOA Open Meeting Law?
At the July 23, 2014 board meeting, association members and the VOCA board discussed AZ HOA law violations. Also, a board member suggested the possibility of AZ HOA open meeting
violations.
Example: Mary Ann Waldron, board member, stated that there were 4 board members, a quorum, at a recent finance committee meeting. VOCA business was discussed at that meeting. She said
it was posted as a finance committee meeting, not a VOCA board meeting. Membership did not know about the “board meeting” since it was “casual.” Since the “board meeting” was at the finance committee meeting, and not posted aas such, membership did not have an opportunity to participate and speak at an appropriate time during deliberations. Violations: B-4 &#038; C During Member Forum, a member stated that the board was violating the AZ HOA open meeting
law as there have been closed—secret—board discussions involving reorganizing VOCA’s management structure, GM vs a Management Company, but there has been no meaningful communication to the membership or discussion during a posted board meeting.
Example: Gwen Hanna, board president, said she didn’t believe the board was in violation as they were discussing rate structures and personnel issues which affected employees in general. Violations: A &#038; C
Example: VOCA signed a contract with Club Corp—a “national premier network of private clubs,” that would list OCC as a course to play with a discount—without open board discussion or vote which extends into 2015. Violations: A &#038; B-4
The VOCA Board needs to comply with the Spirit and the Intent of Arizona’s HOA open meeting law for a stronger and healthier membership.
VOCA Owners for Informed Choice 
More and better open communication
If you weren’t part of the few members present, you wouldn’t
know what happened at the 7-23-14 VOCA board meeting.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is the Current Village of Oak Creek Association Board of Directors Violating the Arizona Open Meeting Law for HOAs?<br />
The purpose of the AZ HOA law is to enable communication with the members of the association.<br />
VOCA board deliberations that are not open to the membership are destructive as they:<br />
1. Foster distrust, 2. Give an image of secrecy, 3. Thwart input from members, 4. Prevent a dialogue between<br />
membership and the VOCA board, 5. Doesn’t allow communication with the membership.<br />
THE ARIZONA HOA OPEN MEETING LAW<br />
<a href="http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/33/01804.htm&#038;Title=33&#038;DocType=ARS" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/33/01804.htm&#038;Title=33&#038;DocType=ARS</a><br />
§33-1804. Open meetings; exceptions<br />
“A. Notwithstanding any provision in the declaration, bylaws or other documents to the contrary, all meetings of the association and<br />
board of directors are open to all members of the association or any person designated by a member in writing as the member’s representative<br />
and all members or designated representatives so desiring shall be permitted to attend and speak at an appropriate time<br />
during the deliberations and proceedings. The board may place reasonable time restrictions on those persons speaking during the meeting but shall permit a member or member’s designated representative to speak before the board takes formal action on an item under discussion in addition to any other opportunities to speak. The board shall provide for a reasonable number of persons to speak on each<br />
side of an issue. Any portion of a meeting may be closed only if that closed portion of the meeting is limited to consideration of one or more of the following:”<br />
1. Legal advice from an attorney for the board or the association.<br />
2. Pending or contemplated litigation.<br />
3. Personal, health or financial information about an individual member of the association, an individual employee of the association &#8230;.<br />
4. Matters relating to the job performance of, compensation of, health records of or specific complaints against an individual employee of the association &#8230;.<br />
B-4 “Any quorum of the board of directors that meets informally to discuss association business, including workshops, shall comply with the open meeting and notice provisions of this section without regard to whether the board votes or takes any action on any matter at that informal meeting.”<br />
C. “&#8230;notice to members of meetings of the board of directors shall be given at least forty-eight hours in advance of the meeting by newsletter, conspicuous posting or any other reasonable means as determined by the board of directors.<br />
“It is generally held that the open meeting law applies to informal, casual, or work sessions which include attendees resulting in a board quorum.”<br />
<a href="http://www.davismiles.com/homeowners-association-open-meeting-law/Why" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.davismiles.com/homeowners-association-open-meeting-law/Why</a> discuss the AZ HOA Open Meeting Law?<br />
At the July 23, 2014 board meeting, association members and the VOCA board discussed AZ HOA law violations. Also, a board member suggested the possibility of AZ HOA open meeting<br />
violations.<br />
Example: Mary Ann Waldron, board member, stated that there were 4 board members, a quorum, at a recent finance committee meeting. VOCA business was discussed at that meeting. She said<br />
it was posted as a finance committee meeting, not a VOCA board meeting. Membership did not know about the “board meeting” since it was “casual.” Since the “board meeting” was at the finance committee meeting, and not posted aas such, membership did not have an opportunity to participate and speak at an appropriate time during deliberations. Violations: B-4 &amp; C During Member Forum, a member stated that the board was violating the AZ HOA open meeting<br />
law as there have been closed—secret—board discussions involving reorganizing VOCA’s management structure, GM vs a Management Company, but there has been no meaningful communication to the membership or discussion during a posted board meeting.<br />
Example: Gwen Hanna, board president, said she didn’t believe the board was in violation as they were discussing rate structures and personnel issues which affected employees in general. Violations: A &amp; C<br />
Example: VOCA signed a contract with Club Corp—a “national premier network of private clubs,” that would list OCC as a course to play with a discount—without open board discussion or vote which extends into 2015. Violations: A &amp; B-4<br />
The VOCA Board needs to comply with the Spirit and the Intent of Arizona’s HOA open meeting law for a stronger and healthier membership.<br />
VOCA Owners for Informed Choice<br />
More and better open communication<br />
If you weren’t part of the few members present, you wouldn’t<br />
know what happened at the 7-23-14 VOCA board meeting.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Glenn		</title>
		<link>https://sedonaeye.com/voca-board-stung-by-redstone-restaurant-expose/comment-page-1/#comment-29510</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Glenn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Dec 2013 16:32:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://sedonaeye.com/?p=34802#comment-29510</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Enough already I wasn&#039;t the one who took the subject off track as was challenged about what I stated as the truth. So why don&#039;t you direct your comments to the ones that deserve it like Joe T not me.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Enough already I wasn&#8217;t the one who took the subject off track as was challenged about what I stated as the truth. So why don&#8217;t you direct your comments to the ones that deserve it like Joe T not me.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Glenn		</title>
		<link>https://sedonaeye.com/voca-board-stung-by-redstone-restaurant-expose/comment-page-1/#comment-29509</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Glenn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Dec 2013 16:29:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://sedonaeye.com/?p=34802#comment-29509</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[John you can&#039;t prove anything illegal as whatever the meter reads is what you get hit for. So if the new meter reads higher than the old one no way to prove that except I track all my electric bills and know the increase between the two]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John you can&#8217;t prove anything illegal as whatever the meter reads is what you get hit for. So if the new meter reads higher than the old one no way to prove that except I track all my electric bills and know the increase between the two</p>
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		<title>
		By: Enough already		</title>
		<link>https://sedonaeye.com/voca-board-stung-by-redstone-restaurant-expose/comment-page-1/#comment-29253</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Enough already]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Dec 2013 01:33:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://sedonaeye.com/?p=34802#comment-29253</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Grow up men, better yet let&#039;s gather you all together and you can duke it out. You are so off track of the original conversation you look like a bunch of fools.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grow up men, better yet let&#8217;s gather you all together and you can duke it out. You are so off track of the original conversation you look like a bunch of fools.</p>
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