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Sedona Not So Transparent City Government Meetings

Eddie S. Maddock, Sedona Eye Columnist

Sedona AZ (July 8, 2012)The following link will direct you to the agendas of the Sedona City Council Meeting(s) scheduled for Tuesday, July 10, 2012

http://www.sedonaaz.gov/Sedonacms/index.aspx?page=21&parent=16608

7-10-12  Agenda – Special Meeting 

7-10-12  Agenda – Regular Meeting 

7-10-12  Complete Packet – Regular Meeting

Dismissing considerable public unrest and discontent with the new policy of setting forth a “pre-discussion meeting” at 3:00 PM in the Vultee Conference Room, it appears a revised version of a famous slogan might be in order for this current City Council: “Ask not what your constituents expect of you, go ahead and call the shots as you deem fit.” 

With the possible exception of initial City Council Meetings, after incorporation was approved by the voters, and with increased city issues and organizational determinations, the meetings obviously were extended in length. It became quite common for meetings to last until 10:00 PM or even midnight and beyond, when, in fact, meetings were scheduled to begin at 6:30 PM. 

City of Sedona Councilor Mike Ward

We now have a seated City Council complaining about the duration of meetings which have historically been lengthy.

Is solving that problem (under the guise of a Special Meeting a.k.a. Pre-discussion of an agenda identical to that which is provided for the Regular City Council Meeting) a viable solution?

Apparently, with the exception of Councilor Mike Ward who spoke outright about his concern for transparency of government, we have six council members who aren’t the least bit troubled about pre-discussions with staff prior to public comments being acceptable! 

Sure, the Vultee (vulture?) meeting is open to the public – but conveniently not televised, audio only. Of course the possible cop-out excuse for opting out of TV availability in Council Chambers is that the Justice Court, may or may not, be using the facility – it has that option on Tuesday afternoons. 

Clearly the voting public is being inconvenienced insofar as listening to staff and council members dialog prior to the “official” meeting. Clearly these essentially perceived “off-the-record discussions” are influential in assisting the City Council to decide how they will vote during the for-real meeting.

That said, what possible influence could public input (limited to three minutes per person) have on a Council that has, most likely, already predetermined how they will vote on a given issue – having had their questions to staff fielded in the “pre-discussion” meeting

Would it not be a positive step for the morale and confidence of this community if Mike Ward were able to convince three of his council colleagues to refrain from attending this Special-Pre-Discussion-Workshop Meeting thereby denying the presence of a quorum necessary for a legitimate meeting of the seven City Council members?

The alleged “real” council meeting is available on Cable TV Channel 4 beginning at 4:30 PM.

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19 Comments

  1. N. Baer says:

    Thank you, Eddie, for pointing out the issues with the “pre-meetings” that the Mayor implemented (or invented) at the meeting as soon as the newly elected councilors were seated. While this may be “legal” ( I wonder about that as well), it gives rise to suspicion.

    If the meetings are so long than why, since incorporation, have they remained so without any adjustments or changes? Mayor Adams gave as reasons for this that the meetings are too long, AND (probably due to staff retirements, etc.) councilors do not have time to ask questions of staff.

    Something seems out of kilter here. There are so many other ways to take care of this – like having councilors read their material by a certain date and submit written questions to staff for their responses.

    This points out another issue in terms of staff and the criteria used to evaluate their performances.

    The apparent procedure is based on whether that staff person achieves whatever project they are assigned. The fallacy with that approach is that these professionals are not asked or even rewarded for pointing out possible issues that would interfere with carrying out a plan – like no money, or not enough money.

    Instead, councilors find themselves backed up against a wall in a formal meeting. They are presented with projects to approve or disapprove that staff has worked on for many years while times and conditions have changed, but they feel obliged to approve. Case and point, the Barbara Antonsen issue (and cover for the failed Sedona Cultural Park) and soon will be Creek Walk, already determined to not be a safe bet in previous years.

    Lastly, City Council behavior has begun to resemble our former SFD Board members insofar as “processes” and common courtesy allowing people to speak are concerned. This is not good for Sedona.

  2. Warren says:

    Typical poor judgment on behalf of the Sedona City Council (AKA The Moronic Convergence).

    The funniest part is that they reasoned having a “pre-meeting” would make the regular meeting shorter. So which is heavier 100 pounds of lead or 100 pounds of feathers?

    Sedonans, you elected these people?!

  3. Warren says:

    Good points all, N. Baer.

    Of course one huge reason for lengthy meetings is that Council (AKA The Moronic Convergence) wastes time on soooooooooo many issues they have no business even discussing — mission creep writ large.

  4. FYI says:

    email reply…….”Thank you for your comments.

    The pre-Council meeting is an experiment to shorten the regular Council meetings. Presently, Council members individually meet with staff members to ask questions and clarify the material that we will be discussing during the Council meeting.

    The pre-Council meeting will give the Council members to collectively ask questions and hear answers from staff. It will also shorten the amount of time that staff has to make available to answer questions.

    We are not trying to avoid public scrutiny. The problem that we are facing is the municipal court has precedent use of the Council chambers during the time prior to the regular Council meeting.

    We have had several people express concerns about not being able to view the Council meetings. We will try to schedule our pre-Council meetings at a time that the Chamber is available.

    Rob Adams, Mayor
    City of Sedona”

    We should also Thank Councilman Mike Ward for standing His ground, against selling Our City land to John D. Miller’s client so He could line His pockets at Our expense.

    Time We started looking for a new Mayorial candidate folks.

  5. Kevin says:

    The only difference between the behavior of the recalled fire board members and what this city council is doing seems to be the city attorney attempting to cover their tails by labeling the questionable meetings as “special” or “workshops” when the council members themselves refer to them as “pre-meetings.”

    If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and swims like a duck, what is it? Hopefully maybe a dead duck.

  6. N. Baer says:

    Kevin, words matter and if you don’t think so, look at the mess our country is in now. We have a political party with more money than necessary, mesmerizing citizens into willingly voting against their best interests. They are doing this by broadcasting their words everywhere and constantly.

  7. Kevin says:

    Watched a little of this meeting and sure enough it was confusing because of the references to something that had been discussed in the “pre-discussion” leaving the viewer clueless as to just what that meant.

    Clearly it appears there’s no intention to do away with the pre-meetings (or whatever the official title.) As the mayor said, 1-1/2 hrs. pre-meeting and 2-1/2 (at least) at the real meeting. Doesn’t that still add up to a minimum of 4 hours with for sure the first 1-1/2 hours with questionable transparency?

    Just another observation. The call for “public comments” has become an afterthought since half the time the mayor forgets to make the offer. Then when (and if) he remembers he seems put out if someone wants to speak. Message sent: public, do not add to the length of our meetings.

  8. FYI says:

    To Kevin,
    My observations also. I agree!

  9. Tommy says:

    The old gray mare just ain’t what she used to be…Sigh…Does anyone miss those good old days when the council would be packed by concerned Sedonites expressing their opinions on hot-topic items? Seems the only hot items in Sedona nowadays are over-heated tourists.

  10. Tommy–Let’s not forget that now people can sit in the privacy of their own home and watch the City Council meetings either live on the Cable Channel or view it after the fact from the City’s website and have the luxury of forwarding to any portion of the agenda they are interested in.

    Why sit throught the whole meeting and listen to a bunch of people who LOVE to hear themselves talk…and say absolutely NOTHING that’s of any substance, when you can find what you are looking for in a couple of minutes and skip over the windbags?

  11. The following quote is a portion of an e-mail I received from Mayor Rob Adams on June 14, 2012:

    “One of the top priorities that has been mentioned in the Community Plan ever since it was initially required by the State of AZ. WAs the community desire to have a creek walk or creek access. I am simply trying honor a community priority by bringing this to fruition.”

    A recent poll conducted by the Sedona Red Rock News indicates the following results in the edition dated Friday, July 13, 2012:

    “QUESTION: What Input Have You Made to the Sedona Community Plan?

    RESULTS:

    6.8% Submitted card at a meeting
    2.2% Submitted comment online
    1.1% Visited the plan’s office

    89.9% What’s the community plan?”

    The RRN acknowledges this isn’t a scientific poll. However, with few exceptions the results of these local “unofficial” polls tend to accurately reflect the pulse of this community.

    Therefore, the mayor intends to move forward with costly land acquisition, subsequent planning and implementation of a creek walk and accompanying park at an unknown cost, within an area designated as being in a flood plane and thus unknown liability to the city, based on input from an unknown number of the 10.1% of the people who have supplied input in the process of updating the Sedona Community Plan? Is there something wrong with this scenario?

    Pay attention, voters, when that city owned property on Soldiers Pass is offered to be sold, against the advice of the City Manager who suggested the council not sell the property for five or ten years, when real estate values stabilize.

  12. Al says:

    hey Andy from VOC;; you hit it on the nailhead, it makes no sense at all to me to sit in a council meeting as a spectator;; what’s the purpose? prefer to read commentors like maddock & city councillors writings for context to get a feel for it all

  13. N. Baer says:

    Al – the purpose of attending City Council meetings is to give your personal opinion on any City issue that affects you. It is to participate in our form of government. Forming an opinion based on what someone else reports is problematic, as everyone especially the main stream media (owned and operated by large corporations) and politicians (ditto), have their own perceptions of how government should act.

  14. N. Baer~you can also participate in our form of government by watching the entire council meeting verbatim, listen to the input from citizens and form your own opinion of what is actually taking place. You can also make your views known by emailing, writing letter to the City Manager and the City Council. Sitting through a boring meeting and listening to people who love to hear themselves talk and say nothing is not MY way of participating in our form of government. I suspect that it isn’t for many people in town. Needless to say, I agree with Al.

  15. AL says:

    n baer; fast forward to now. there’s live video.

    old school is sitting in council’s chamber & commenting publicly like we do here or writing or better even is VOTING PEOPLE OUT OR IN OFFICE BASED ON PERFORMANCE AND REPRESENTATION;; add transparency to that.

    case in point; the flim flam land deal that real estate agent tried to ream taxpayer pockets with;; case in point; council hiding from cameras in premeets; get my point? don’t see your point that there is a problem forming opinions based on LIVE STREAM media or reading opinions/facts to form an opinion.

  16. Tommy says:

    I dunno…Watching things in cyber just doesn’t cut it for those who live in reality. The council needs to see people before them and vice versa. Illusiions speak louder than words.

  17. Josh says:

    REALLY there commentor named Tommy???? Watching things in cyber doesn’t cut it for those who live in reality??? That’s the best you’ve got????

    From the Supreme Court on down to the local fire district, from Exxon Board Meetings to Facetime, from street security cameras to hand held i-phones, real time is reality!!!! How old are you anyway???? Must be over 60 and living in the PAST time.

    The problem with sitting in council meetings is that live stream holds people accountable for WHAT they say, HOW they say it, WITHOUT the ability to weasel out of it later by saying some writer or citizen with a grudge didn’t quote them correctly or took it out of context.

    ACCOUNTABILITY is here. Ask people like Rodney King, Paris Hilton, Anthony Weiner, John Edwards, Rush Limbaugh, Bill Clinton and if you are as old as you seem to be remember how a missing 18 minutes changed history or Joe McCarthy was disgraced on TV or the Vietnam War and Iraqi Wars were brought in to living rooms in living blood colors or the hosings of civil rights workers or the tearing down of the Berlin Wall . REALLY TOMMY???? Best you got????

    Any how like the article. Comments also.

    Josh, Sedona

  18. E.S. Maddock says:

    Thank you, Josh.

    IMO you just confimed the real reason for the City Council’s “Pre-meeting, Pre-discussion, Special Meeting, Workshop” get-togethers in the Vultee Conference Room “prior” to the regular “real” meetings.

    No Sir, no TV in that Vulture Room to hold them accountable. Of course, audible tapes are available. Ha! Hardly the same. :-)

  19. Well said, Josh!! I am well over 70 and feel that reality now is quite different than it was in the past. Now I can sit in my own living room, having my favorite beverage and watch a variety of governmental proceedings anywhere in Washington, Sacramento, City of Sedona and the Sedona Fire District. I LIKE this reality far more than the old one.

    I also remember while going to college having to go to a variety of school and municipal libraries in rain and snow to do a research paper for one or more of my classes. The new reality provides students with the means of doing research via the internet and the means to access information from all corners of the world… and we take it all for granted!

    Tommy, isn’t it about time that you joined the NOW generation? We old folks should really benefit what the new generation has provided us with.

    Andy in the VOC

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