Home » City Council, Community » Did the Opposition to the National Monument Issue Fall Asleep?

Did the Opposition to the National Monument Issue Fall Asleep?

SedonaEye.com J. Rick Normand, Investigative and Financial Columnist

SedonaEye.com J. Rick Normand, Investigative and Financial Columnist

Sedona AZ (May 20, 2016) – Angela LeFevre and Nancy McLean Brown, and their new hired gun, Neil Bethell Sinclair, who has expertise in “the political landscape,” made the mistake of thinking so! Arizona Liberty (“AZL”), comprised of Mike Schroeder, Dwight Kadar, this writer, and Susan Amon, was the leader of the Sedona Verde Valley Red Rocks National Monument (“SVVRRNM”) designation opposition that crushed the left-wing effort to induce Ann Kirkpatrick to make a formal request to President Obama to use his Constitutionally-challenged power of governance by Executive Order to create the SVVRRNM.

But, after Angela LeFevre left the Sedona City Council in a huff over her 6-to-1 defeat in her attempt to get the City’s endorsement of the National Monument issue, not to mention a defeat in 100% of the City Councils and unincorporated townships in the Verde Valley, she’s trying to backdoor the issue again by forming another of her coalition’s (her favorite word) known as “Save Our Ancient Red Rocks (SOAR)” – a 501c3 nonprofit organization which doesn’t seem to have obtained from the IRS a Letter of Determination. Her newest call to arms is “Who could not live in this amazingly beautiful place and not want to ensure its permanent protection?” which is a tactic to make her personal national monument quest one of taking the moral high ground notwithstanding the wishes of 86% of the residents of the Verde Valley to the contrary who understood the terrible deliberately hidden consequences. If you, dear reader, don’t know the consequential legal, economic, environmental and moral arguments AGAINST the Red Rocks National Monument issue, which caused its defeat last year, just go to the far upper right hand corner of this website and type into the search box “J. Rick Normand,” then click on “Go,” and all seven articles that I wrote on this subject will appear. They will recount the magnitude of the legal, economic and environmental nightmares western states have been forced to endure as a result of latter day national monument designations.

Monument land grabNevertheless, here we go again!

Apparently LeFevre, Brown and Sinclair, as well as The Sierra Club, and the same old cast of characters from the last failed effort have decided that all of you should revisit the issue again before it’s too late to get the President to stick it to the State of Arizona before he leaves office. So, these three have formalized an effort to get all of you to change your minds and, therefore, overwhelm Arizona’s Congressional delegation with your demands that they pile into the White House demanding that the President save our Red Rocks from…well, no one is quite clear as to whom or what we’re supposed to save our Red Rocks from other than the always implied ogre of ever-so-evil American capitalism. So, why would Angela LeFevre choose to try to revive this unpopular issue? You have to understand who she is, her Marxist political background and her current political belief-system. If you want to better understand her motivation, go to the comment blog roll at this link :

https://sedonaeye.com/another-sedona-monumental-mistake/

Proposed Sedona Verde Valley Red Rocks boundaries

Proposed Sedona Verde Valley Red Rock National Monument boundaries

Meanwhile, we at AZL had no doubt that Ms. LeFevre and Ms. Brown thought, after their last resounding defeat, that AZL would disband or just fall asleep at the wheel. No, ladies, we knew you all too well! We knew you’d be back irrespective of the outcome imposed upon you by our Constitutional Republic, our sovereign state and the vast majority of opposed local opinion. We knew your revival tactic would be to try to get a petition drive going to enlist a huge number of non-Verde Valley Arizona residents to sign your petition in order to present a false impression that local opinion on the issue has somehow reversed itself in less than eight months. Knowing what you would do and the tactics you would enlist to try to accomplish your socialist goal, we at AZL took a different manner of opposition strategy by choosing to engage with our own coalition…comprised of the State of Arizona Legislature in the persons of Rep. Bob Thorpe and Senate President Pro Tempore Sylvia Allen, Governor Ducey, and Arizona Congressional Representative, Paul Gosar.

Following below is what AZL has supported and who we are working with instead of conducting bogus petition drives, raising donations based on false premises and disseminating false moralistic publicity pieces:

monumental mistakeCongressman Gosar has resurrected the 1884 Anti-Deficiency Act {U.S. Code Title 31 Section 1341-Anti-Deficiency} which has never been rescinded by Congress or overturned by any federal court which prohibits federal agencies from obligations or expending federal funds in advance or in excess of a Congressional appropriation and from accepting voluntary services. In other words, any Executive Order by President Obama for the enabling of SVVRRNM will NOT be able to get any enabling funding requested by The National Park Service, the BLM, the USFS or any other federal agency without a formal U.S. House of Representatives approved appropriations bill which will NEGATE the President’s Executive Order. Doubtless, this is the real reason that Ann Kirkpatrick doesn’t want to support Angela’s continuing effort. I have talked with Rep. Gosar face-to-face to discuss this and I will promise you the Republicans of Arizona’s Congressional delegation are thoroughly prepared to PREEMPT Angela LeFevre’s, Nancy Brown’s and Neil Sinclair’s effort to revive the National Monument issue.

Sedona Arizona Bell Rock would become part of the National Monument

Sedona Arizona Bell Rock would become part of the National Monument

Concurrently, Governor Ducey has signed Rep. Bob Thorpe’s bill, namely House Bill 2585, which is now law in our State, which requires the Arizona State Land Department to “determine whether the limits of a parcel comprising a national monument” in our state “are confined to the smallest area compatible with the proper care and management of the objects to be protected by the national monument.” Keep in mind that national monuments in the western U.S. average 175,000 acres in size whereas national monuments in the eastern U.S. average 50-100 acres that is not a misprint! Notwithstanding Angela LeFevre’s demonstrated inability to understand U.S. Constitutional Law (see weblink recited above), the State of Arizona does have the right and Constitutional sovereign authority to hold the federal government to the restrictive language contained within the very law that President Obama uses to create national monuments. Even the Arizona Game and Fish Commission has come out against the creation of more national monuments in Arizona.

We here in Arizona have already lost more than 100,000 acres of State Trust land to the creation of federal land management and oversight entities which have severely limited state land trust revenues that were earmarked to support our schools. The worst hypocrisy I’ve heard in years is the claim by Angela LeFevre that “she is for education in our state.” How does cutting the State’s ability to fund school programs help education? Ms. LeFevre, our schools don’t need your misguided help! And, your recurrent Save Our Ancient Red Rocks National Monument drive is anti-AZ schools.

So, Ms. LeFevre, we recognize that your newest and greatest National Monument movement is a flat out ruse to camouflage your Marxist bias towards total federalism! You’re in Arizona, not Leeds, England Ms. LeFevre. Out here, we like to run our own affairs rather than have the Feds do it and enforce their will upon us with their federal police force. You’ve had 12 years here to figure that out!

Read www.SedonaEye.com for daily news and interactive views!

Read www.SedonaEye.com for daily news and interactive views!

62 Comments

  1. I See Through You says:

    Readers,

    WOW! Talk about calling a spade a spade. LeFevre lost the LD6 race, lost the first NM issue after starting with a massive popular opinion lead, gave up her elected Council position because she couldn’t get along with the Council and, therefore, betrayed all those who voted for her, and now is about to lose the NM issue again. What does it take to get this woman out of AZ politics once and for all? Well, on second thought, maybe we should keep her since she has done irreparable harm to the progressive left in northern AZ.

  2. JESS LOOKIN says:

    Perhaps Ms Lefevre should return to England with her socialist program. Her waste of public money and tantrums are not appreciated here.

  3. J. Rick Normand says:

    @ All Readers at The Eye:

    In November of 2015, Congressman Gosar introduced legislation into the United States House of Representatives, H.R. 3946, the Protecting Local Communities from Executive Overreach Act, which updates the 1906 Antiquities Act in order to protect property rights, water rights and jobs from presidential abuse of the Antiquities Act of 1906.

    H.R. 3946 is supported by all five Arizona Republicans and blocks two misguided monument efforts in the Grand Canyon Watershed and the Sedona-Verde Valley Red Rocks area, both of which have significant local opposition thanks to Arizona Liberty. The bill accomplishes this task by explicitly prohibiting NM declarations in Coconino, Mohave and Yavapai counties by abusive Presidential executive fiat.

    Congressman Gosar’s appropriations language request makes a number of reforms to the 1906 Antiquities Act. This effort also explicitly prevents three misguided monument efforts in the Grand Canyon Watershed, the Sedona- Verde Valley Red Rocks area and in the Northwest Sonoran Desert from circumventing Congress, preventing public input and failing to comply with NEPA.

    Angela LeFevre and Nancy Brown, are you paying attention now? We at AZL are working harder than we did last year to stop your misguided NM designation efforts.

    JRN

  4. Gary says:

    keep on it

  5. Sara Stewart says:

    Occurs to me that this weekend’s traffic standstills are going to be daily occupancies if this stupid plan goes into effect.

    Air quality is compromised. Attitude compromised. Sat and crawled 47 minutes in car from bell rock Blvd to 89a. Nobody was enjoying the view or shopping. I was going to Hillside and didn’t to get to friends on time. Sorry you missed my business.

  6. Eddie Maddock says:

    @Sara Stewart. May I suggest contacting Sedona City Hall and attempt to ascertain just how many of those cars tying up traffic were destination tourists, day trippers, or vacationers heading for Oak Creek Canyon? It’s doubtful you will receive anything even close to a sensible answer since that would involve demanding an outside audit of how the money the City of Sedona awards annually to the regional Chamber of Commerce is being spent in order to account for the ongoing traffic snarls that have become all too common.

    And the reason is NOT the roundabouts! Imagine four lanes of traffic (had those seeking that alternate for SR179) being snarled at stop lights from point A to point B. The insane design of the less than one mile owned by City of Sedona only added to the problem by blocking traffic as cars must now stop in order to allow back-outs from parking spaces.

    As for the diehards that will insist on blaming the roundabouts, then how do you account for the miles of backups in Oak Creek Canyon by cars coming from Flagstaff? There are no roundabouts throughout the canyon.

    And the number one concern of the moment is too many garbage trucks collecting residential trash?

    Stupid planning creates stupid and aggravating results. The best case scenario: Word of mouth advertising that Sedona is no longer a desirable place to visit.

  7. Alarmed says:

    Occurs to me that this weekend’s traffic standstills are going to be daily occurrences when the City’s 13 Community Focus Areas are crammed into Sedona. Isn’t it great that these super high-density CFA’s are to bring the 13 areas into closer alignment with community expectations and the community’s vision [of a small-town character, I suppose]?

    The reckless Western Gateway CFA was rubber-stamped by the City Council last Tuesday. Next comes upzoning. Developers will be in heaven when they get to begin construction on the several hundred new lodging guest units–excluding the 120 being built at the Marriott Courtyard today–along with the tons of single-family residences, apartments, assisted living units, etc.

    REJOICE SEDONA! The HOCUS POCUS Western Gateway’s Traffic Flow CFA Objective is “reduced traffic congestion on SR 89A.”

  8. steve@elportalsedona.com says:

    Thanks for all the support, five Arizona Republicans apposing any NM”S
    can only help.

    Off to DC. next month to talk it up, what are you guys doing except writing to each other and letter to Republicans, it’s the Dem’s the count …now.
    After election, new democratic president, new liberal supreme court and Republicans will loose Senate…. God bless Trump. .
    ss

  9. Tourist says:

    I was traveling in Sedona this past weekend, and stayed at a local hotel in west Sedona.. Had a great time hiking and mountain biking….

    Can’t understand why people here are complaining about traffic……I had no issues and enjoyed the trip

  10. @Tourist says:

    What you write is understandable if you stayed away from the Main Drag, SR179 and uptown Sedona. Did you, by chance, enter Sedona via Cottonwood? If so that’s excellent! What we really need is for ADOT to place an exit to Sedona sign on Rte. 260 which would greatly help the situation. However, I doubt the merchants uptown will be happy to read your message.

  11. magickj says:

    I went to California for the Memorial Weekend. The traffic was horrible and road rage ruled the day. By comparison, Sedona streets were nearly empty. I can understand why a tourist would think traffic isn’t that big of a problem here. They probably live somewhere in Orange County.

  12. magickj says:

    SS – had a good belly laugh about a new Democratic president, unless of course, it’s Bernie Sanders. The lame stream media has got together and will announce that Hillary will be the Democratic candidate before polls close in California today — even though the super-delegates won’t be voting until the Democratic convention. What a joke. The democrats should be worried – very worried – about backing a dishonest candidate, which ruins the entire “brand” of Democrats. This translates to a corrupt system, well-funded by the big banks on Wall Street. Let’s not forget that HSBC (a major contributor) was caught red-handed laundering BILLIONS in drug money, but was “too big to jail.” Clinton received millions from Wall Street for speeches, but won’t release the content of the speeches leading many to believe she just received bribes. If the FBI gets involved to throw fuel on the fire, the entire Democratic ticket will burn to the ground. Only 4% of Americans actually trust Congress, TSA is another joke — it took me 90 minutes to get through security in Phoenix before my flight to OC, but only 10 minutes in OC for the return trip and witnessed an elderly veteran being harassed for his little pocket knife (he said he’s carried it for so long he forgot he had it in his pocket, and was led away from the line and placed in a little room. Oh yeah, he must have been about 90 and was in a wheelchair.)
    There’s no common sense anymore.
    Hillary said she’d put Bill back in charge, but let’s not forget that his policies are what led to the 2008 crash of the economy where millions of folks lost their homes and jobs. There’s been greed and corruption and death in the wake of the Clinton’s, and most Americans just aren’t buying into that tired good old boy club anymore. If we make it through to the end of the year without riots in the street, I will be surprised. Wait, if we make it through to the end of the summer without riots, I will be surprised. The corruption running the country, state, counties and even little old Sedona is coming to a swift end.

  13. Johnny & Dolores Osborne says:

    Thanks!

  14. Gray's, SF in CA says:

    The waitress in our restaurant told me to write our complaints on the SedonaTimes.com. So we are. Thank you for the advice.

    My girlfriend & I like Sedona for its peacefulness. We don’t like the chotskis of that area of it near the canyon drive, my dad said it’s disgusting, my mom said it’s different than when she came 7 years ago & not for the better. They would stay at L’Auberge about every 5 years but it’s changed & this time we went to Enchantment Resort because it’s far out, dad insisted or we were headed to Tahoe. We won’t be back to those city places. There’s no peace in that tourist area with all the t-shirt shops & fake Indian stuff, like Venice Beach on rocks. Here’s a big 5 for the road from Sedona past Bell Rock our first stop. Slow and breathtaking, but it’s not possible to see the rocks much in Sedona unless you pay for an ATV tour. People are very nice. Save your city from the national monument, they’ve ruined California economy and turned special places that were quiet to backed up roads and tour buses. You can’t get to the beaches or the mountains without drama. Temecula used to be wonderful. Now it’s overdeveloped. Pay attention. /Mark, Jerry, Janice, Rachel

  15. Ted says:

    Everyone has a right to be stupid. Sedona politicians just abuse the privilege.

  16. @Ted says:

    Right you are. But the current planners and decision makers just have to be setting the all time record. The expansion at Tlaquepaque, for example, with no consideration of adding to the traffic back-up from pedestrian crossing. And the list goes on and on. Beginning but not ending with the 12 or 13 Community Focus Areas. And not even a clue towards solving the traffic situation but simply adding to the congestion. OMG – common sense, where art thou?

  17. Stang's says:

    Trying to get its Big Deal but see future problems inevitable, wife & I decided not to buy here, narrowed down btwn Foothills house & Granite area house & decided Prescott. We’ll visit when we want & if it becomes a national monument we won’t have to deal with it or the kind of tourists it’ll attract.

    Our agent asked us to comment here & not use her name about why & what we decided to do.

    We didn’t like hotel nearby because it’ll likely bring fast food or chain restaurants & questioned expansion for that med center for peace & quiet & same reasons across the road. We didn’t want Sedona for any urban amenities, its peace & quiet & views were it. We’re moving from a beautiful place that lost itself to urbanization, pockets of bad investments & over development & poor zoning ruined it. Worried property values won’t hold in Sedona after looking at research. Didn’t see another house that we liked better than that one in Foothills South for us until Granite.

    The Prescott community we settled on is safe & newer & custom perfection. Not a chance the area will be developed beyond residential. We’ll gladly drive fifteen minutes to Prescott for what we need, it’s a charming city located in an ideal AZ spot & Sedona we’ll visit if we want.

    Best agent we ever used! Wish we could share her name. She’s opposed to national monument. We recommend Dahl & DeLuca restaurant & Elote restaurant if you are looking for an above par experience.

  18. Stag's 100 % correct decision says:

    Finally, a voice of reason and sanity. I’ve been a Sedona resident going on 20 years, but this year has been a turning point in which I am looking to find some place else to live my life where I’m not having my life intruded upon daily. I’ll be looking elsewhere, both in and away from AZ. Thanks Stang’s!

  19. Curtis, Sedona says:

    Saw one of your bumper stickers on a pick up in Hyatt (Y) roundabout couple days back. Might get one then.

  20. Eddie Maddock says:

    One person whose name isn’t included in your article, Rick, happened to be on the Sedona City Council when the service contract for destination marketing was put in motion with the Chamber of Commerce. Therefore it was extremely surprising to me when that same person who shall remain nameless was one of the main speakers on behalf of Keep Sedona beautiful at those public meetings when the push for this National Monument surfaced.

    Adding to this perplexing situation is that same person totally turned against Keep Sedona Beautiful when they refused but were legally unable to take a position to support the city acquiring ownership of W89A. (They, KSB, would have been subject to losing their tax deductible non profit status by taking a stance in a politically charged ballot issue.)

    The amount of damage done to Sedona under the guise of “Destination Marketing” remains unknown as has been commented on probably hundreds of times on Sedona Eye. There has never been an accounting of just how many additional day-trippers that wasteful expense has brought in. And yet they will continue to pour money into it and at the same time rally for a National Monument Designation? And they claim that will save Sedona while at the same time millions of dollars are being spent to destroy it? Maybe it’s one and the same – Chamber of Commerce equals NMD? Which is worse or is it a draw?

    The moral of the story might well be summed up as follows. Sedona has been taken over by a bunch of unscrupulous opportunists who, in my opinion, think nothing of making decisions to continue ruining the place while at the same time claiming to be environmentalists seeking sustainability. Unbelievable but real and very, very sad.

  21. Soup Ray says:

    I’m for it. Now you say…

  22. @Soup Ray says:

    What possible reason could you have for wanting a National Monument?

    I’m against it. I do not wish to lose my private property rights, water rights, right to walk my dog (dogs are banned in National Monuments), right to private trail access, and more.

  23. West Sedona Dave says:

    So some one has to look up to see your lying?….or is it best you dont get fact checked…..I dont think I want any dog in Lincolns home….But national forest or dedicated forest land…..

    I could care less either way….But every one here has to light there hair on fire for silly stupid crap!

    U.S. National Parks
    In general, pets are permitted but must be restrained either on a leash not exceeding 6 feet in length, caged or crated at all times. Requirements for visiting a national park with your dog vary, so be sure to check each park’s regulations before you visit. Find a U.S. National Park

    U.S. National Forests
    Pets are allowed in all U.S. National Forests, but must be kept on a leash no longer than 6 feet at all times while in developed recreation areas and on interpretive trails. Most other areas within the National Forests do not require dogs to be on a leash, but they should be under control at all times. Pets are not permitted in swimming areas.

    If you plan on bringing your dog to the national forest familiarize yourself with trail situations that can be hazardous for dogs, hikers, or other trail users. Update all vaccinations and provide flea and tick control for your pet. Also, make sure your dog has identification tattoos and/or tags in case you are separated while on your hike.

  24. I See Through You says:

    West Sedona Dave,

    Dave, you’ve just horribly embarrassed yourself. Pets are NOT allowed in National MONUMENTS but ARE allowed in National FORESTS. So much for fact checking the wrong issue. Before you call someone a liar, first figure out if you have a tendency to be just plain stupid!

  25. West Sedona Dave says:

    Did I not say I wouldnt want a dog in Lincolns home?….You are the one painting with the broad brush….Not I….

    Again, you lied, and were called out…..You pick and choose your outrage, like most on this silly right wing rag……

    Time to start pointing out hypocrisy!!!

    I remember a time when we loved our government and did our damdest to make it better….I wish the ones that complained the loudest could leave and find a place with no government and no laws…..

    Now show me were I cant walk my dog in a national “outdoor monument”.

  26. I See Through You says:

    West Sedona Dave (another low IQ West Sedona handle)

    You say you know that “I lied” because you did a fact check. Then you say “Now show me were I cant walk my dog in a national “outdoor monument”. OK ignoramus, you want it, now you’re going to get it. But first, there’s no such thing as a national “outdoor monument” classification of federally managed land, so, we can assume you’re embarrassingly ignorant to start with. Anyway, you said you did a fact check. No you didn’t because you’re obviously too lazy to do your homework or you must be really pathetic at doing that simple-minded task since you apparently never looked at these prestigious sites that prove my point:

    http://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/hiking-with-your-dog-this-summer-may-be-harder-than-you-think-41203349/?no-ist
    http://www.gopetfriendlyblog.com/not-just-whistlin-dixie/
    http://www.topix.com/forum/city/santa-fe-nm/TKQO7OK9L57AL4CO6
    http://www.dogtipper.com/tip/2013/07/national-park-regulations-for-dog-travel.html

  27. steve segner says:

    West Sedona Dave
    Good for you,they just make up stuff, they never ever fact check or go to any meeting they want all the benefits of government but do not want to pay for it.
    ss

  28. J. Rick Normand says:

    @steve segner and West Sedona Dave,

    I thought you two clownish amateur fact-checkers would like to see this fact just emailed to me:

    Just as I wrote…just as I promised! Mike Schroeder, Dwight Kadar and I never sleep yet, still, we deliver.

    Today, the [U.S.] House Appropriations Committee passed the Gosar-Stewart amendment that blocks the proposed Grand Canyon Watershed and Sedona Monuments while also prohibiting the president from designating new national monuments under the Antiquities Act in other [AZ] counties where there is significant local opposition.

    In Arizona, the Gosar-Stewart amendment prohibits the designation of any national monument under the Antiquities Act in Coconino, Maricopa, Mohave and Yavapai counties.

    Please feel free to forward this release to other interested individuals.

    Sincerely,

    Jeff Small
    Legislative Director
    Congressman Paul A. Gosar, D.D.S.
    Arizona’s 4th District
    504 Cannon HOB | Washington, DC 20515
    (202) 225-2315 main
    jeff.small@mail.house.gov

    JRN

  29. West Sedona Resident says:

    @JRN

    “never sleep yet, still, we deliver”

    You didn’t use proper punctuation..

    You should sleep cause you look like an overweight zombie

  30. j. Rick Normand says:

    @West Sedona Resident,

    All anyone has to do to see how I’m built is stop by SNAP FITNESS next to Harkins’ theater any Monday or Tuesday afternoon about 5:30pm and look for themselves. Or, ask any one of the staff since they all know me well. If one chooses stop by and take a look, they will realize one other thing which is why you, WSR, have such an unfathomable envy problem.

    And, the punctuation, taken in the context of the whole sentence is correct.

  31. steve Segner says:

    Rick ,i’t not over till the The Fat Lady Sings.
    Ha everyone ask rick about the trash issue…… he talks about everything else.

  32. J. Rick Normand says:

    @steve Segner,

    WOW! I’m impressed, indeed. You are quite correct in your observation that, while I have expressed strong opinions on a lot of issues, I have avoided taking any public position on the single trash hauler issue. Since you believe you can play chess with me (ala Angela LeFevre), why don’t you ask yourself why I’ve taken no position on your favorite chessboard issue? Since I feel sorry for you, I’ll give you a hint…

    1] If the Council votes AGAINST the single hauler proposal…I win!
    2] If the Council votes IN FAVOR of a single hauler contract with the City…I win even bigger.
    3] If I tip my hand as to my strategy, I will have lost no matter what.

    So, Steve, why don’t you tell everyone what your next move on the chessboard will be? I will tell you this, though,…you had better get it right.

    JRN

  33. Steve segner says:

    Oh please old trick you did not answer, you just re asked the question
    Yes or no will do fine Rick
    See rick it is not a game and yes I think we should do it but I am just one person,

  34. J. Rick Normand says:

    @Steve segner,

    Excuse me Steve, but you never stated a question, in the first place, that required a simple “yes” or “no” answer. Once again, you’ve demonstrated your penchant for unintelligible writing and indecipherable logic. What always mystifies me about you is that you have no idea that no one can ever figure out what you point is!

    JRN

  35. P. Condon says:

    What luck is it to find a major vs a vs? Thanks.

  36. Juan Pablo Firestorm says:

    “We’re moving from a beautiful place that lost itself to urbanization, pockets of bad investments & over development & poor zoning ruined it.” So you moved from Sedona?

  37. steve Segner says:

    I Asked Rick 3 time, yes or no on trash he seems to not be able to understand the question.
    still no answer one more time yes or no
    lets all see what he comes back with bet it’s more then one word and part of then answer will be how smart he is…. easy yes or no

    ss

  38. J. Rick Normand says:

    @steve Segner,

    You sawed-off little dog-food salesman, you haven’t spoken to me since 2008. The next time I see you sitting at a Council meeting, though, I will sit down next to you. And, I will be in your face little man. We’ll not only find how smart you are, but how brave you are. I’ll bet you won’t be able to answer yes or no to anything at that moment.

    JRN

  39. @J Rick says:

    What Steve doesn’t realize is that you really do think that you;re the smartest guy in the room. Of course no one else thinks that but it’s most important that YOU think that.

    Now we all see that you’re a BULLY on top of being the smartest guy in the room.

    Sad, very sad J Ricky.

  40. West Sedona Dave says:

    JRN

    I hate to say it…..You just kinda threatened him on a web site….

    Do you know there can be ramifications for doing such?

    I could care less……but you should be more careful…IMHO

    WOW…..you ERW’ers

  41. steve Segner says:

    Rick said:

    You sawed-off little dog-food salesman, you haven’t spoken to me since 2009

    Seems rick has something against people that work for a living.

    Rick, Your comment is interesting, I just asked (one more time) are you for or against the city trash contract, easy question, so why, won’t you answer.

    Rick you seem to always comment on how smart you are by talking down to everyone…. Perhaps you should go back to school and take a philosophy 101class, You would understand dialogue is not bulling or name-calling.

    I asked a simple question, we are all waiting yes or no.

    We held a program at my home “UP the Canyon” this week

    It was for people that “don’t” know everything.

    Post by:
    Terrie Frankel added 23 new photos — with Angela LeFevre and 9 others.
    7 hrs · Sedona, AZ ·
    Steve Segner and wife Connie of El Portal Sedona Hotel, recently hosted Dr. Andrea Houchard and her popular Philosophy in the Public Interest Salon at their famed Thompson Ranch up Oak Creek Canyon. What made this event so interesting is that nearly 80 Philosophy Scholars from around the country – participating in a Philosophy Retreat at NAU – were bused down the Canyon to mingle with some of Sedona’s most notable and interesting local friends of the Segner’s. Following a tour of the Segner’s authentic Arts and Crafts home built by Joel DeTar, the guests gathered in small groups to participate in philosophical discussions. Historian Segner says such discourse influenced and shaped American societies of the 20’s, 30’s and 40’s. The gathering was a resounding success and Steve says he plans to host more of these intellectual gatherings in the future. From Emus trotting on the perfectly manicured lawn – to the delicious barbecue – this was a summer evening memory we will treasure. Guests included: Paul Friedman, Mei Wei Wong, John Sather, Charlie and Karen Schudson, Al Comello, Laura Van House, Angela LeFevre, Mayor Sandy Moriarty, City Manager Justin Clifton, Council Members John Martinez, Scott Jablow, and Jessica Williamson, Col. Judith Patton, etc.

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10208812803451124&set=pcb.10208812817811483&type=3&theater

    Dog food guy

  42. J. Rick Normand says:

    @West Sedona Dave,

    Thank you Dave, and yes I do know the law very well as to threats, slander and libel which you may have perceived in my comments. To be actionable as a matter of law the alleged threat would have to be UNEQUIVOCALLY interpreted by a reasonable person (not likely a court of law would find SS to be a reasonable person considering his diatribe against me for years) as a threat of physical or financial harm or harm to reputation. My words don’t imply, much less state unequivocally, any of the three and weren’t meant to.

    But, I can tell you that I have been cloistered in a room with SS and I can assure you that he is easily intimidated by words expressing concepts that he can’t understand when he’s in front of a crowd that he wants to influence. My last sentence refers to the already demonstrated fact that he will choke up when trying to deal with my verbal jousting and he’ll do it again with me sitting next to him. And that, Dave, was the gist of my warning and that’s all it was or was intended to be. I intended no threat as defined above, just a reminder to SS of what has happened before when I verbally got in his face for calling me a liar as he did in his comment(s) above!

    Btw, as to all two of you who like to tag me with the BULLY label, I might point out to you that the more the media tags Donald Trump with the BULLY label, the more popular he becomes. Most intelligent bloggers know that the people who sling around the BULLY label are cowards who can’t win an argument on the merits and are envious of those who usually do win them. Additionally, my publisher is well aware that when the same two people continually call me a BULLY that they are unwittingly increasing readership at The Eye. So, please keep it up BULLY BASHERS…LOL!!!

    JRN

  43. J. Rick Normand says:

    @steve Segner,

    Whoever wrote your comment to me is NOT actually you…the real Steve Segner. I think anyone who is a regular blogger here would recognize that the real Steve Segner cannot write intelligible sentences and post them in decipherable logic threads. So now, we have someone who hasn’t the courage to identify himself/herself trying to defend little Steve who can’t even defend himself. And, by the way mystery writer, you’re not very bright yourself. Simple logic should tell you that, like any published writer, I have no duty to answer a question here which has nothing to do whatsoever with the associated article I researched and wrote. Winners in life will come out into the public light and debate me when I speak at public events while losers, like you, hide in anonymity out of fear. You lose as usual! While you often use the old tried and failed tactic of stating that I “talk down to everyone” and “we are all waiting,” those who know me know that I never talk down to well-read and thoroughly informed logical people nor do I believe for a second that all those you mention who are waiting for me to answer an irrelevant question are more than two or three local losers who know that no one in this community has any respect for them.

    JRN

  44. steve Segner says:

    One more time
    I just asked JRN a question, yes or no.
    No verbal jousting, just asked a question.
    Look at all the post and the content, NO answer.
    JRN:said
    “Donald Trump with the BULLY label, the more popular he becomes.
    Think Ego” think self-important
    sad
    By BY …. got real stuff that I can work on
    ss the dog food guy

  45. @steve Segner says:

    Well cut off my legs and call me shorty #2. In his own braggart manner Segner admits royally entertaining an unpublished quorum of city council members at his elegant Oak Creek Canyon home, feeds them in grand style, and continues to rule Sedona government. What has happened with the foolish idea of Open Meeting Law? And how much of city taxes really assisted in footing that bill?

    Has anyone taken time to break down the grand amount of $2.01 million dollars recently allocated to the Chamber of Commerce for the 2017 contract, allegedly for Destination Marketing? It seems that figure might be broken into roughly $5,000 per day or better yet, $35,000 weekly. And as the Chairman of the Sedona Lodging Council, an affinity group of the C of C, they don’t somehow benefit financially from that public funding, of course justified by the .05% bed tax increase agreement?

    C’mon, you fools. And you congregate socially, flaunt it in the faces of the flatland nuisances, and insist it’s a good deal? And adding to the mix, relatively new city manager Justin Clifton is also among the elite silk stocking group that partakes of what most assuredly can rightfully be perceived as return on favors and bribes.

    If this city can justify accountability for a $35,000+ weekly give-away to the Chamber of Commerce and affinity groups, then let’s hear it. How about it, Mr. Clifton? Or do you all consider your participation in such gala events at the lavish estate of Mr. & Mrs. Steve Segner a justifiable accounting of adequate return on that outlandish amount of money? How can you possibly deny the exchange of such unaccountable lavish funding as anything short of corruption? Read it and weep, lowly flatlanders. You’ve been had – AGAIN!

    But in the future kindly take your constant nagging and manipulating ways to acquire “new sources of money” from the pitiful few, some of us realistically surviving on $35,000 or less annually and place your ideas appropriately into the soon to be new garbage cans you will be sporting when City of Sedona competes with three existing legitimate services. So much for economic development. Frauds – all of you.

  46. Larry A says:

    The real bullies are SS, lodging, Chamber, Linda, Jennifer and the RR wanttobe news as they are stealing from the city. They do it with a smile. Thanks J.Rick it’s about time someone stood up to SS = Jack As_

    @Steve Segner מלא חרא שלך
    still laughing at your post דיין פול פון דרעק
    Look it up

  47. Robert O says:

    Hay J Ricky

    I’m sure that you’re safe from litigation with your threat to Steve Segner, I don’t really think that anyone on this site that knows you thinks that you are any more than all talk.

    I remember seeing you at the cowboy church during the Natl Monument talks, you looked like a washed up gym rat from decades ago. Everyone knows that
    when you get boxed into a corner you come out with the threats and intimidation. That’s ok Ricky, IT’S WHAT YOU DO. Some day you’ll find that kid that took your lunch money when you were in school.

  48. West Sedona Resident says:

    JRN

    Wow Little Rick. I think you got it wrong… That huge ego of yours seems to be so easily hurt by SS comments…..

    I guess those who talk the most or think they are the smartest are really the biggest (deleted by editor)….. Aye Rick

  49. CORRECTION says:

    In a previous comment @steve Segner mistakenly I reported the bed tax increase as .05% when, in fact, it was .5%. That further brings to mind that it’s ONLY the lodging facilities within city limits that collect bed tax, in addition to city sales tax. Therefore, all members of the Chamber of Commerce outside city limits that do not participate in collecting city taxes benefit from the Destination Marketing Contract by virtue of being a member of the C of C simply because the true responsibility of the C of C is to represent only their members. Such a deal? Not for Sedona city businesses, any of them, forced to pay the high price of collecting city taxes, expensive rents that are also taxed, sewer fees, business licenses, and other preposterous assessments for struggling to make ends meet and keep doors open. And those businesses that choose to not be members of the C of C, although they contribute to the $35,000 per week payment to the C of C, do not benefit since they are excluded from mention at the city operated visitors center.

    Party on at the Segner Galas, City Council and Staff Members. Enjoy it while you can. Nothing lasts forever

  50. I See Through You says:

    Dear Robert O, SS and WSR,

    You guys just don’t get it, do you? You’re easy cannon fodder. It’s obvious J. Rick just loves to have fun with you BULLY BASHERS as he refers to all of you. Look at the quality of his postings compared to yours. Pea green with envy, aren’t you? How come none of you JRN detractors ever write articles like he does? How come you won’t face up to him in public? And Robert O, if you were really at the CC, how come you didn’t go up to him and identify yourself? No guts huh? Oh wait, how silly of me. You’re only tough talkers when hiding in the dark. I don’t see JRN hiding in the dark. Keep it up bully bashers. We all just love to see him put you down on a regular basis.

Leave a Reply

Copyright © 2008-2017 · Sedona Eye · All Rights Reserved · Posts · Comments · Facebook · Twitter ·