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Damn All of You Who Want All the Facts!

SedonaEye.com financial columnist J. Rick Normand

SedonaEye.com financial columnist J. Rick Normand

Sedona AZ (August 25, 2015) On October 18, 2012, Angela LeFevre, current City of Sedona Councilor and a very vocal supporter of KSB, had released in her behalf by Steve DeVol, owner and publisher of Sedonadotbiz and a former President of KSB, a campaign video of her failed 2012 run for Arizona Legislative District 6 House of Representatives. (The link to this video is here.) The video was a plea for the defeat of Arizona State Proposition 120, which this writer also opposed, but for different reasons than LeFevre. In the midst of the current debate over the proposed Sedona-Verde Valley Red Rock National Monument designation (hereinafter referred to as the “SVVRRNM”), Councilor LeFevre and KSB, the Sierra Club, Sedonadotbiz, Congressperson Ann Kirkpatrick, House candidate and current KSB President Tom O’Halleran, and the advocates for the passage of the SVVRRNM designation tend to mimic one another. Councilor LeFevre also gives the appearance of speaking for the entirety of the SVVRRNM advocacy group. In other words, it seems they all speak with one voice for support of the subject national monument designation proposal. So, if any of her (LeFevre) spoken advocacy of federal land stewardship is faulty, and no other advocates disagree with her, then it has to be assumed that the entirety of the official advocacy group agree with her statements.

During the taping of this video, however, LeFevre made two interesting comments, mimicked by KSB, that caught my attention and should catch the attention of every citizen of Sedona and the Verde Valley. I do not recite these two statements in the context of Prop 120, or its fortunate demise, but rather in the context of the related belief-system(s) of the majority of supporters of the Sedona-Verde Valley Red Rock National Monument designation, for whom she unofficially speaks and whom they parrot, including Keep Sedona Beautiful, the Sierra Club, Rob Adams, Tom O’Halleran and Ann Kirkpatrick. The two videotaped public statements I refer to occur at the 4:42 mark and again at the 5:05 mark. Beginning at the 4:42 mark, candidate LeFevre remarks “…our federal government does an awful lot of work to keep this place the way it is. They are stewards. There are hundreds and hundreds of instances where our federal government does an amazing job of protecting our lands…” and at the 5:05 mark she launches into this “…Sovereignty [of states] is a misnomer when it comes to one state which is a part of the United States of America and I don’t think that trying to create a sovereign state of Arizona does us any good whatsoever.”

Animas River in Colorado was polluted by an EPA leak

Animas River in Colorado was polluted by a 2015 EPA leak

These statements evidence a complete and utter ignorance of the Constitution of the United States, its Amendments (especially the Tenth), the interpretive rulings of the Supreme Court of the United States relative to state’s rights and sovereignty, the interpretive rulings of the Supreme Court of the United States and U.S. federal Appellate Court’s rulings concerning the Property Clause of the U.S. Constitution, U.S. CONST., Art. IV, § 3, d. 2., and the National Park Service Organic Act, 16 U.S.C. § 1 (1994), and of our Founding Father’s Federalist Papers, not to mention the repeatedly and overwhelmingly demonstrated incompetence of the various federal bureaucratic agencies charged with the duty of federal land, resources, and antiquities management that I have pointed out in my two articles here at the SedonaEye.com entitled “Is there a National Monument designation downside? Parts I & II.

The latest example of incompetent and dangerous federal stewardship subject to the Antiquities Act of 1906 is the environmental catastrophe that has devastated gorgeous Durango, Colorado and Monument Valley, Arizona which is immediately downstream from Durango’s Animas River. Or, as Arizonans, you might want to think back to the June 2002 Rodeo-Chediski Fire which began near Cibique, Arizona—that fire burned over 462,000 acres, caused evacuation of over 8,000 people, destroyed 426 residences and cost approximately $153 million taxpayer dollars to fight. Four Type I Incident Management Teams and an Area Command Management Team were involved to fight the largest fire in Arizona history. The Rodeo-Chediski Fire was human-caused, but its massive devastation was exacerbated by the failure, for decades, of the USFS failure to clear underbrush from the forest floor and failure to cut-in access roads for future fire equipment to use, not to mention federal misallocation of aerial assets in a timely manner.

Sedona AZ

Sedona AZ

And then, there is the story of one of the most beautiful of all National Monuments…the Organ Pipe National Monument in southern Arizona, which has been almost irreparably damaged from decades of unrestricted illegal immigrant traffic and commandeering by highly armed Mexican drug cartel operatives. Several years ago I sent pictorial evidence of this heart-wrenching damage on a massive scale (and that is not a grossly overstated adjective to prejudice the readers of this article) to Marlene Rayner of the Sierra Club who chose to ignore the issue to my knowledge and certainly won’t acknowledge this fiasco now. So much for the politically motivated support for KSB and the Sierra Club whose belief systems, relative to the proposed SVVRRNM designation, are borne of a Marxist utopian concept of federal land, resources, and antiquities stewardship which hasn’t performed well in nearly 40 years. Rethink this paragraph in light of Angela LeFevre’s aforementioned public statement “…our federal government does an awful lot of work to keep this place the way it is. They are stewards.” If this statement is true, then why do we need a new and different Red Rock Country federal stewardship designation and why does it need to be fast-tracked to yet another egregious Presidential Executive Order without any public input from you?

So, why did I choose to entitle this article “Damn All of You Who Want All the Facts!” anyway? Well, it’s obvious! How dare any of you question the authority-status of KSB, the Sierra Club and our would-be “always truthful” politicians who are running for office or in the midst of creation of their own legacies (at least in their own minds!) as to their self-anointed status as our only credible spokespersons concerning federal stewardship? And, this presumed fact, of course, justifies their tactical method of circumventing the 109 year old “tried and true” practice of Congressional debate over the designation of National Parks and National Monuments, subject to the 1906 Antiquities Act, promulgated by fast-tracking the use of the vaunted Presidential Executive Order, so often used by President Obama in order to prevent public discourse vetted through Congress. Right?

Bell Rock

Bell Rock in Village of Oak Creek Sedona AZ

OK, I’ve written this last paragraph tongue-in-cheek to underscore the absurdity of permitting the KSB and the Sierra Club and their respective SVRRNM designation supporters to style themselves as authorities and benevolent caretakers rather than propaganda outlets with political motives.

How can I be so audacious as to make this statement? Because, as I’ve already done in my aforementioned articles published here at The Eye, I can easily prove the commission of the sin of omission of relative and detrimental facts left out of the multitude of pro-SVVRRNM presentations that may cause massive loss of support for the proposed Sedona Verde Valley Red Rock National Monument if they were known.

For instance, as I stated in a comment to one of my aforementioned articles, from a thorough reading of the Natural Resources Journal (Vol. 39), report entitled “Not So Helpless: Application of the U.S. Constitution Property Clause to Protect Federal Parklands from External Threats” authored by Harry R. Bader, I feel it necessary to address the following again as an absolutely critical matter of concern relative to the proposed Sedona Verde Valley Red Rock National Monument designation:

[For the record, I am not a licensed attorney. Anything I’ve written in this commentary should be reviewed by legal counsel for Keep Sedona Beautiful and our district’s Congressional delegation who intend to request of President Obama that he sign an Executive Order creating the SVVRRNM designation.]

Many conservationists worry that National Parks and Monuments may be threatened by development activities occurring outside established park or monument boundaries, thereby threatening preservation objectives.

Currently, the extra-territorial reach of the federal Constitution’s Property Clause enables park and monument managers to address perceived external threats to park and monument integrity. The Property Clause is available, and has been successfully relied upon, to control activities adjacent to, or within the perimeter area of, a federal conservation unit which significantly interferes with the primary purposes for which the federal land is designated.

U.S. Supreme Court building in Washington DC

U.S. Supreme Court building in Washington DC

The U.S. Supreme Court and Appellate Courts have consistently ruled that under the Property Clause of the U.S. Constitution, U.S. CONST., Art. IV, § 3, d. 2., and the the National Park Service Organic Act, 16 U.S.C. § 1 (1994), that the power of Congress over the public lands is without limitation.

However, these cases only address threats to federal land management objectives resulting from state and private conduct occurring upon the federal lands. The issue soon arose, however, as to whether federal agencies may use the Property Clause, and their enabling statutes, to protect public lands from extra-territorial threats. A federal court first addressed this issue in U.S. v. Brown, 552 F.2d 817,817 (8th Cir. 1977) just one year after Kleppe v. New Mexico ruling, 426 U.S. 529 (1976), and Kleppe, 426 U.S. at 540.

In the Brown case, the Court ruled that the Property Clause is broad enough to reach beyond territorial limits. Applying this rule to the facts presented in the case, the court stated that Congressional power over federal lands includes the authority to regulate activities on Non-Federal public land/waters in order to protect wildlife and visitors on the federal park land. The Court, relied solely on the Property Clause, requiring no additional statutory authorization from Congress to permit the Park Service to regulate conduct on non-federal property.

The next important case addressing extra-territorial application of the Property Clause was Minnesota v. Block wherein the Court upheld the a state statute finding that “Congress’ power must extend to regulation of conduct on or off the public land that would threaten the designated purpose of the federal lands,” 660 F.2d 1240,1249 (1981). Almost any state activity, even the most traditional of police powers endeavors, fall before the Property Clause if the activity poses a significant impediment to federal land management objectives.

white houseFederal ability to reach beyond the confines of public land and regulate activity on adjacent state and private lands has startled many states, particularly in the West, where federal lands are extensive. When deciding whether it is appropriate for federal agencies to regulate private and state property to protect federal lands from external threats, the federal courts have consistently ruled that several rules must be developed to determine the availability of the Property Clause for extra-territorial application. The rules that may be gleaned from case law can be generalized as relating to three primary subject areas: (1) the location of lands to be regulated in proximity to federal land, (2) the purpose which the regulation is to serve, and (3) the nature of the federal interest to be protected.

In order for the Property Clause to bestow its enormous extra-territorial power, each rule must be satisfied.

Private and state lands subject to regulations under statutes pursuant to the extra-territorial application of the Property Clause must be within the perimeter area of a designated conservation unit or ENTIRELY SURROUNDED by federal lands (as would be Sedona and the Village of Oak Creek) under various management agencies. This is known as the “inholders rule.” Under the “inholders rule” a property owner within federal unit perimeters falls subject to potential regulation automatically. The “inholding rule” gives reasonable notice to potentially regulated parties that the application of agency rules may be extended “extra-territorially” towards them, but it does place an absolute limit on the extra-territorial extension of the Property Clause.

Thus, this question, from an ethical if not legal perspective, should be addressed in the Keep Sedona Beautiful, The Sierra Club, and the pro-SVVRRNM designation websites, as follows:

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. House of Representatives

Is it possible, that it could be interpreted under the above mentioned “inholding rule” that the federal jurisdiction of the Sedona-Verde Valley Red Rock National Monument would extend into the Village of Oak Creek and the unincorporated environs of the Verde Valley and possibly into the incorporated municipalities of Sedona, Camp Verde, Cottonwood and Clarkdale that would be immediately adjacent to the proposed SVVRRNM designated boundaries? If the inholding rule can be applied to the extra-territorial areas just mentioned, the fact of local self-governance could be impaired and we could find the place we live and love under indirect federal authority. At the minimum, if the inholding rule does apply in our case if the subject National Monument designation is accomplished, this could give the Feds a choke-hold on our local economy.

Have the hard-charging proponents of the subject National Monument designation obtained a legal opinion from an attorney thoroughly acquainted with the current case law regarding the inholding rule of the U.S. Constitution’s Property Clause as it would, or would not apply, to the proposed SVVRRNM designation? I doubt it, and this is why I question all commenters who rabidly imply or state that Keep Sedona Beautiful is an authority rather than a purveyor of propaganda motivated by a political purpose.

The 10th Amendment Movement has spread to 32 state legislatures...

Finally, as to the sovereignty of the State of Arizona the Tenth Amendment says “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” Apart from the Supremacy Clause, limitation of state authority is an issue that is left to the people of those respective states… and that fact does define “sovereignty.“

The enforcement provision of the Tenth Amendment is known as the Nullification Clause which more generally falls under the law of agency wherein the principals (the states) may revoke the agent’s (the federal government’s) authority at will. It would be unreasonable to force the principals to honor promises of an agent that has acted outside the limits of its authority as set out in the document that created the agency in the first place…the U.S. Constitution. Can the National Monument proponents find a Constitutional lawyer to dispute this? Of course, but then the issue is debatable, isn’t it?

And that’s the point…if the issue is debatable, then it should be in front of Congress, not on the President’s desk!

So notwithstanding, subject to the intent and provisions of the Tenth Amendment which I just stated, namely, the Nullification Clause, Arizona voters approved Prop 122, in the General election last November, a state constitutional amendment that enshrines the anti-commandeering doctrine in the state constitution. Arizona will now have the ability to “exercise its sovereign authority to restrict the actions of its personnel and the use of its financial resources to purposes that are [only] consistent with the [U.S.] Constitution.”

In other words, the people of the Arizona now have the power to prohibit their state’s cooperation with the federal government in the implementation or enforcement of federal acts or regulations they deem unconstitutional. That includes Presidential decrees by un-legislated Executive Orders. As the Tenth Amendment Center says, “Despite what federal supremacists tell you, there is absolutely nothing that says the states have to help the feds with any federal program. The constitutionality issue doesn’t even come into play.”

So, if you feel that you need to expressly oppose the Sedona-Verde Valley Red Rock designation, let your Congressional representatives know, and rest assured that if President Obama tries to create the designation as a matter of law by Executive Order, it can and will be challenged in the next Congress in 2016-2018 or by the state’s legislatures subject to the Tenth Amendment.

It is very EASY to send your vote against the subject “Sedona-Verde Valley Red Rock National Monument” designation to your Congressional Representatives in Washington, D.C. Just go to the link below, open it, fill out the requested information fields and hit the big red…VOTE NO. That’s it, and your vote and your voice will be sent to your Arizona Congressional delegation in Washington.

http://www.arizonaliberty.us/Vote_NO_SVVRRNM_U.html

Read www.SedonaEye.com for daily news and interactive views!

Read www.SedonaEye.com for daily news and interactive views!

62 Comments

  1. We are already a year into it.

    http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/energy-environment/246408-the-epas-big-land-grab
    https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr3080/text
    http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/us/obamas-epa-about-to-make-the-biggest-land-grab-in-the-history-of-the-world
    http://www.truthandaction.org/epa-prepares-make-biggest-land-grab-history/
    Keep believing you have a say in anything. Stop waiting for others to do all the work. Get involved for you children and your almost extinct freedom.

    Its starting to make sense hat the VOCA has been overrun by corporate policy makers taking away all the power of the homeowners. That is one half of the Village population. A corrupt Big Park Council speaking for the complacent residents. All the committees and wastewater district being run by friends and family.
    We are almost ready to become part of what was once Sedona or better yet BIG Daddy.gov .
    WAKE UP PEOPLE!

  2. To All Readers at The Eye:

    I’m already anticipating the first pro-SVVRRNM proponents to begin a counter-attack here, in the comment blog to this article, by claiming that I can’t relate Councilor LeFevre’s long-time advocacy of federal land stewardship to KSB’s and the Sierra Club’s positions on the issue because all the advocates speak independently of one another. If that’s what anyone thinks please go back to by article “Is there a National Monument designation downside? Part II and re-read the comment of “sharlett says: August 23, 2015 at 9:26 pm:” She nailed it. She describes precisely how the interlocking relationship between the prime movers of the SVVRRNM advocacy group works!

  3. The UNINTENDED consequences of this National Monument proposal as well as the 1.7 MILLION acres proposed around the Grand Canyon – all supported by the Sierra Club and opposed by AZ Fish and Game, AZ legislators, a coalition of US Congressmen throughout the west should be a warning bell.

    Rick’s outline and detail and research uncovers the way Washington works – and as most of us should know by now, Washington doesn’t work. What is presented as a rosy picture by KSB and the Sierra club, by reference to already EXISTING National Monuments, National Parks and Wilderness Area designations should send a chill up your spine.

    Anyone who thinks a position paper or management paper is going to be followed as time goes on by the Federal Government should just wake up and see how they continue to screw things up.

    Our USFS is doing their best and if they were allowed to DO what THEIR experts know is the right thing to do, and keep the Washing folks at bay (they have great forests to protect in DC – Right?) we as citizens living in this beautiful area would be much better served – as would our lands.

    How much of YOUR PERSONAL FREEDOM, not only in your daily lives, but CONTROL OF YOUR PROPERTY are you will to sacrifice for the Sierra Club, KSB and their misguided followers?

  4. Brian says:

    I cant even begin to express how frustrated I am with this. Our federal governement is on the verge of bankruptcy and the assets of the federal government are there to be leveraged as collateral against our debt.

    How could anyone want to throw a local or state asset into a pool thats going to potentially be handed over to some foreign entity we owe money to?

    Im not even going to get into Agenda 21.

    I completely agree with what your saying Rick.

    Why so many people are so politically naive and unaware of world history and the true legacy of American government and importance and significance of the balance of power, states rights, and individual liberty, Ill never understand.

    Wake up people! The United States is dangling off a cliff and its because we lack street smarts and constantly allow people to pull on our heartstrings and dupe us into a bad deal because no one’s exercise critical thinking!

    One more thought to leave you all with. What are the implications of this on our water rights?

  5. Leah says:

    Thanks J Rick for doing all of the homework and for all 3 articles.

    Here’s my concern…

    KSB is going to go forward with this no matter what the public says. There is no way to stop them. 1/2 of our city council and the former Mayor are all in favor of NM designation. They have told everyone that they are having open meetings and the turnout has been great. What they are not saying is that 80% of those in attendance are against the designation.

    KSB has appointed themselves as THE AUTHORITY and are purporting themselves as the keepers of all the greatness that Sedona is. Everything they say is fact and they are the experts. They constantly use scare tactics and spew lies.

    Tom O’Halleran treats everyone at the meetings as if we are the little people and we aren’t educated enough to really understand how important this is. He is a typical politician and never answers a question; he just skirts around it and says “just trust us” over and over.

    I’ve been to meetings, have read every word of the KSB website and voted no on the “against” page, but I don’t think any of it is going to do any good toward stopping them. We can cry out for support against this horrible mistake, but in my opinion, we aren’t going to be able to stop them.

    I want to be involved and sorry to be a Debbie downer, but I don’t really see the point anymore. The arrogance of KSB to think that they know everything and are going to do this whether the general public likes it or not, is despicable. They don’t really want our input and have no intention of listening.

    Is there really a way to stop this madness?

  6. Thank you Rick for keeping an eye out and for trying to protect this beautiful land by taking the time, effort, and research that was involved in gathering all this information and making it known to all of us!

  7. Readers at the Eye:

    Check out this site created by one of the most courageous young men in America, Michael Boldin:

    http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/

    Also, check out another site created by a powerhouse liberal Democrat party operatiive who has dedicated her life to fighting United Nations Agenda 21 which is a related issue to this SVVRRM land grab:

    http://www.democratsagainstunagenda21.com.

    And finally, even the far, far-left is turning out against the SVVRRN designation and posting petitions for signature of those opposed to this National Monument designation:

    http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/united-citizens-opposing.fb51?source=c.fb&r_by=14115546

  8. @Brian and @Leah,

    I don’t know who either of you are, but I am compelled to write this comment:

    The two of you are far too talented, caring, articulate, logical, and persuasive to give up the fight. Both of you can change people’s minds. We need you. Keep writing blog posts and going to public forums to speak out against this insidious political act which has nothing whatsoever to do with caring about our beloved Sedona.

    Don’t be afraid to talk them down at these public forums either. Sedona is not only our Red Rocks, it is our people. What we have here is a few dozen fanatical Marxist Utopian propagandists who want to use unethical and undemocratic means to cram their political belief-systems down the unsuspecting throats of 80,000 residents of the Verde Valley. These supporters of an SVVRRNM designation, to be achieved by the questionable method of a Presidential Executive Order without public input, is a clear indication that the supporters of such a point of view are utterly consumed by self-righteousness!

  9. steve Segner says:

    Great god he did it “United Nations Agenda 21”ve, been waiting all week for the
    Great hidden agenda that only Rick can see.
    What I lake about J. Rick Normand comments over the years is there are thing only HE knows, with Rick the sky is always falling and BIG GOVERMENT is around every corner,
    Rick lets not stop with United Nations Agenda 21, don’t forget Contrails.
    Steve

  10. We need to start attending these local meetings and removing these people from the boards. Ask hard questions.
    Starting at KSB.

    These people are only in power because we let them be in power. The karmic retribution alone is going to keep some of these ego driven people busy for a few future lives.

    Take part in the bright future, be a voice for freedom and light.

    Trust yourself and trust your Creator. The meek are going to inherit the earth, never forget that.

  11. Lin Ennis says:

    This article is way too lengthy for me to choose the time to read in depth, but I agree with your basic questions. The KSB brochure makes statements, pretty statements, without offering substantive support. I’m undecided, but for now, color me Q — questioning!

  12. @Steve says:

    I believe the strategy of the typical mundane Agenda 21 conformist, like yourself, Steve, is to pretend it does not exist. You don’t have to do that anymore.
    What? No one told you?
    The UN must have chosen not to inform you,as a flatlander, you hold no rank.

    https://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/milestones/unced/agenda21

    Make sure you don’t own land where they will be taking it for the upcoming rail system. That will come after all the land with water is taken.

    http://www.america2050.org/maps/

  13. To All Readers @ The Eye:

    I’ve just received this email from the Tenth Amendment Center in answer of my email about using the Tenth Amendment Nullification Clause if the President tries to use an Executive Order to create the SVVRRNM:

    team@tenthamendmentcenter.com
    http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/
    Today at 5:00 PM

    To: J. Rick Normand

    Nullification is certainly an option in a case like this, but what it would take would be for state officials to ignore or resist the federal government’s designation. There’s certainly not a constitutional justification for this kind of executive order, but only infrequently do state representatives stand up for their own rights on these matters.

    Hope that helps.

    Ben Lewis, TAC Team

  14. John Walters says:

    @ Mr. Normand

    I’ve been reading your stuff for far too long. I’m guessing that you’re one of those who like to hear themselves talk because you think that you’re the smartest in the room.

    Here’s a little factoid; KSB on their own can’t have a bowl movement let along move this or any idea forward because they have no political standing anywhere. Why else to you think they’re trying to push city council.

    So, be a blowhard and flap your wings all you want and when you’ve finished and lowered your blood pressure you should realize that you should be encouraging everyone to sit down and write McCain and Flake. Do you really think that the president would support anything like this without a wink and a nod from those guys or even our state reps? Come on, you make it seem difficult when it’s not. But then again, I’m not the smartest guy in the room.

  15. @John Walters,

    I don’t know if you’re the smartest guy in the room or not, but before you write comments like this, I’d suggest you do your homework. The entirety of the AZ Republican Congressional delegation, especially John McCain and Jeff Flake, have already notified President Obama in writing that they are opposed to an Executive Order to create the subject NM since it violates the 109 year old protocol of Congressional debate regarding any National Monument designation by a sitting President. Furthermore, Tom O’Halleran and KSB have been publicly pushing Ann Kirkpatrick to fast track this issue and to invoke a Presidential Executive Order to accomplish it. She didn’t think this up all by herself. And btw, in fact, a factoid is defined as a piece of unverified or inaccurate information that is presented in the press as factual. If you’re as smart as you think you are, why don’t you try writing with a command of our language. Meanwhile, your point inaccurately described as a factoid, is also grossly incorrect because City Council has no authority over 70,000 of the 80,000 in the Verde Valley who will be affected by a SVVRRNM designation. So, I believe it is you, sir, who is the blowhard flapping his wings which are about as useful as those on a quail.

    JRN

  16. “Sometimes people don’t want to hear the truth because they don’t want their illusions destroyed.”
    ― Friedrich Nietzsche

    Good work @J Rick keep it coming

  17. Kim Chott says:

    Thank you Rick for your informative articles. Keeping us educated is gallant in my opinion.Your research has been helpful to all of us Regarding the National Monument, anything the government is involved turns to disaster. The less government in our lives the better!

  18. dark can not exist when there is light. keep being the light, people!!!

    http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/252140-judge-blocks-obamas-water-rule

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/aug/27/obama-epa-rule-blocked-criticized-fed-power-grab-o/?page=1

    Arizona is one of those 13 states. Does anyone in AZ know which politicians are behind this?

  19. J. J. says:

    Holy Cow! A WHOLE page ad in the Red Rock Snooze in favor of the National Monument! Who’s paying for this propaganda? Our tax dollars? Oh geez – I hope there’s a big crowd at that meeting and the attendees can tell KSB where they can file the NM application!

  20. To All Readers at The Eye:

    In a Letter to The Editor at Sedona.biz from our former Mayor entitled:

    To Find The Truth, You Must Peel The Onion
    By Rob Adams
    Mayor of Sedona 2008 – 2014
    (August 27, 2015)

    at this link: http://www.sedona.biz/editorial-and-opinion/letter-to-the-editor/letter-to-the-editor-to-find-the-truth-you-must-peel-the-onion/#more-28721

    he says: “Of particular concern to the City of Sedona are the repeated attempts by our State Legislature to take control of Federal lands. The consequences of such an action are UNKNOWN, but it APPEARS that the legislators that support this idea (including the Senator for our district, Sylvia Allen) would like to open our forestlands for mining and other exploitation.”

    This is a precise example of the same type of uncorroborated grossly exaggerated scare-tactic statements used repeatedly by National Monument designation proponents who recite KSB and the Sierra Club as expert authority when they are actually nothing more than propaganda outlets (they both started out as great concepts, both those who are merely politically driven have taken over).

    Character assassination of opponents of the designation and related ad hominem attacks, non-fact supported statements made as if they were legitimate, failure to document arguments with points of authority ( credible reports), hard evidence, and expert testimony coupled with emotional cries for needless regulation are the strategy of the proponents of the SVVRR National Monument designation. So is the prospect of federal stewardship promises that are never met in practice.

    None of those LISTED BELOW have even attempted to meet the test of the rules of legitimate debate! Let’s stop with the political motivations and sham marketing for support of the SVVRRNM and address the real concerns of 80,000 residents of Sedona, Camp Verde, Cottonwood, Clarkdale, the VOC and the Verde Verde Valley whose concerns have been intentionally swept under the carpet of KSB, the Sierra Club, and our politicians who are abusing the offices to which they were elected or which they’re seeking.

    These are the people who will NOT answer the challenge to stick to the legitimate rules of debate who have had sufficient time to do so :

    @Nancy Brown
    @Anonymous
    @Alarmed & Paying Attention
    @Birgit Rose
    @Judy Stein
    @steve Segner
    @check those facts
    @John Walters
    @Rob Adams

  21. steve Segner says:

    J. J. says:
    Our tax dollars? really J.J. you just say things you know are wrong.

    “tell KSB where they can file the NM application”, J.J. are you even capable of having an open conversation?
    Some people or groups have opinions, and you can to, lets just stick to facts not hate.
    ss

  22. N. Baer says:

    Sierra Club sat at the table with APS and the other fat cats who approved smart meters. How can an “association” dedicated to preserving Nature also assist in its slow extinction and elimination by dehydration and premature ageing of the flora and fauna, and its animals? It boggles any sane mind.

  23. Darryl Z says:

    Steve Segner – Perhaps you need a reading comprehension class. J.J. is asking – who’s paying for that whole page ad when the City Council seems to be pushing this designation along. You carefully avoided answering the question.

    Furthermore, did you ever listen to yourself? You attack ANY and ALL who fail to agree with you.

    I’d also like to know who placed and payed for that full page ad. I want to know why this NM is being pushed through without answering basic questions and why is it being pushed through so quickly? Can’t we just study this issue and put it up for a vote? This isn’t about the 10,000 souls in Sedona (As Rick points out) but rather 80,000 residents in the Verde Valley. You have NO right to speak for people who did not elect you. You represent NO ONE.

  24. Unfortunately, Rick, City Administration lost sense of their jurisdiction when the former City Council contracted with a “regional” Chamber of Commerce for “Destination Marketing.”

    As a member-driven organization, the Chamber was never held responsible by the Sedona City Council to give an accurate accounting of their membership outside City Limits. And since the City foots the bill with City revenue to advertise the “Entire Verde Valley” and finance a “regional” Visitors Center, it appears they think they can now determine the need and speak on their behalf for supporting a National Monument designation. Can you or others come up with another or better reason?

    Is it possible to change that mind-set? Only “the shadow” knows.

  25. Suzanne says:

    Well, it isn’t only the regional Chamber of Commerce these Sedona City control freaks are interested in. Every one of the “non-profits” receiving money from the city may not realize it but it’s a way to purchase “territorial” (regional) control.

    Wasn’t it Rob Adams himself that took credit for helping to organize the Sedona Culture Collaborative “dedicated to Greater Sedona” as appears on the web site. When you pay to play with the big boys then maybe some of these people didn’t realize that means allowing Sedona city government to speak for them on issues with such magnitude as a National Monument designation.

    Moral of story: No free lunch, folks. Sell your soul to the devil and therein lies the details for he (they) will be making decisions for you.

    Just another point of view.

  26. Brian says:

    Hey J. Rick Normand,

    I actually am a co-founder of gonegreen.org and we used to publish one of the only green magazines in the coutry until right up to the 08 crash.

    We got out of print and went all online.

    Ive taken a more spiritual approach and embraced Thich Naat Hanh’s quote, “the best way to heal the environment is to heal the environmentalist.”

    We changed our business model to prioritize empowering the individual rather than fighting the system.

    There’s a reason our country was formed as a Republic though. Its because in a Republic the rights of the minority are supposed to be protected from the majority. Thats the whole point.

    All these collectivist sell outs that go along to get along are so naive, such sheep, i cant even waste my time arguing with them. It feels like im a 17 year old, full of testosterone and rage, bench pressing well over 300 lbs showing up to a fight after school and i get there and the guy im fighting is a 3rd grader. Its immoral to even engage with them.

    Theyre so dumb its straight out of the movie Idiocracy. Its pathetic, sad, and comical all at the same time.

    I literally laugh out loud at the thought of how stupid our local government is and the people ive seen in the past running it.

    I have a better politcal strategy than to argue with them. First though, we should get intelligent men and women organized. Quality over quantitiy. Those who have taken the red pill and studied world history need to get together and organize themselves. Sounds like Rob Adams might have taken the red pill.

    Ive removed myself from local politics and spend almost half my time abroad. Letting our land be given to anyone is not something im willing to put up with though. Ill be there after school for the fight, just make sure the guy im fighting is at least my size or bigger. Im not interested in being politically correct or wasting my time.

    Ill gladly debate someone who thinks theyre intelligent on the other side of this, but i really have no interest in herding cats or placating people. I dont have time for it.

    Tell me where to be, what we need to do, and ill be there.

  27. sharlett says:

    @Brian – I’m feeling rather dumb. What is the “Red Pill”?

  28. Max says:

    oh hell J Rick isn’t the KSB newest end run to get a National Monument just another one of their land grab and shut the gates mentality?

    looks to me like KSB is Using Sedona city council as their test run and only wants them to agree with them so they can dangle that agreement to all the other Verde valley communities to come on line like Sedona did. What a bunch of crap and how stupid do they really think everyone is? (and since when has the Verde valley ever supported Sedona as everyone is very tired of our elitist councils)

    Well, we should all by now know how dumb Rob Adams thinks we are and what new office is he going to be running for?

    this whole concept needs to be shot down faster than a speeding bullet and let the council get back to taking real care of our needs inside the city.

  29. @Brian and All Readers at The Eye,

    Thank you for your great comment, Brian. Meanwhile, all of you who are opposed to the SVVRRNM designation are welcome to join us , and bring your friends too, to a local meeting of Concerned Citizens for America’s on Thursday, September 3rd meeting, 6:30 PM, at the Canyon Trails Cowboy Church, Sedona, 86336 on Dry Creek Rd just north of Hwy 89A.

    We have invited AZ Speaker David Gowan, Speaker of the Arizona House of Representatives, to talk about the “National Monument” issue (see below).

    http://www.arizonaliberty.us)

    Concerned Citizens for America presents:

    ARIZONA SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE REPRESENTATIVES
    DAVID GOWAN

    &

    CANDIDATE for:
    AZ CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT 1
    UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
    GARY KIEHNE

  30. Brian says:

    @Sharlett,

    Its a metaphor of the pill in the movie the Matrix that Neo, the main character, is to take if he is ready to face the truth of how the world really works. If he takes the blue pill he falls back asleep and wakes back up in the false reality completely oblivious to the nature the matrix, which is the false reality people are living in.

    The movie Truman Show has a similar metaphor and ultimately the real genius, the one who gave us both our form of government (a Republic) as well as the allegory of the Cave is where this concept really arose from. Theyre both our modern day stories of Plato’s The Cave being retold to us in modern film.

    Its the age old story of people being too ignorant to understand anything other than the false reality either behind handed to them by someone else or simply that theres anything more than whats right in front of their face.

  31. Sitting on our friends Wyndham deck with our friends looking at thunder mountain we are saddened to learn that Sedonans aren’t proactively securing that mountain and others from developers.. This place is okay but it’s aging and repairs are Visibly needed and somebody ought to make sure they are done like the cement stairs falling apart. Decks need attention. Grounds are well kept and people are fabulous in sales and guest services. Sedona hardly has anyone here and we like it and why we chose this time of year to come for a long weekend. We weren’t impressed with the uptown area except amara restaurant and the cowboy club was nice. Don’t do the national monument folks because you need a strong local government because we in our area regret it. Property prices DID NOT GO UP !! don’t buy that lie. Keep Sedona pretty ! We will be back. We learned of sedona three years ago from neighbors and that’s how we got here. Thanks for letting five of us contribute to this great reporting.

  32. magickj says:

    Hello Herm, Tanya, & Friends – If you’re looking at Thunder Mtn, you’re looking at Forest Service land and there’s NO development there. The building is within the City of Sedona, and personal property owners must comply with building code designed for our area. If you owned land here, I’m sure you’d want to build your home on it, and hopefully, you’d use sustainable building materials and techniques. Sedona is like an island surrounded by USFS land and actively protected under a stringent guideline called Amendment 12. Thank you for your NO vote against the National Monument – which is nothing more than a land and water grab by the government. Please come back and visit us often, as we LOVE having visitors like you – wide awake and fully aware!

  33. Brian says:

    @J. Rick Normand

    Help us understand the relationship of this to Agenda 21 and the UN.

    I had originally heard from people that I highly trust to usually be dead accurate in their research and understanding of issues like this that this transfer from National Forest to National Monument was a threat to our water rights and was all a part of Agenda 21.

    I haven’t had time to investigate this thoroughly, but I was assuming you were on the side of being fully awake to the global agenda to control water rights and natural resources by the UN.

    That said, it sounds like in your article in the Sedona Eye you are saying that by moving our distinction from National Forest to National Monument there is some either intended or unintended consequences of that further expanding their jurisdiction and control of what the feds can do regarding private and state land in close proximity to the National Monument.

    If thats the case, the federal government could by default make arrangements with the UN to protect water and impose that both on the state and private parties, therefore infringing on our water rights.

    This is my greatest concern. Trying to think this thing through 10 steps ahead. Can you please help me connect some dots here.

  34. sharlett says:

    @magickj

    You are so correct that Amendment 12 protects us as KSB sells us out for another of their lame attempts at a land and water grab.

  35. @Brian says:

    Like many other readers, you think the activists have time to do all your work and research which eventually leaves you with no real ownership on any issue.
    Do your own research and come back and inform others like yourself. It takes time and they are already spending countless hours only to have readers give them another project?
    The ownership of an issue will create change, not just commenting on someone elses work.
    You have enough info on the comments to get started on your quest for knowledge on Agenda 21.
    I will share with you that when this subject enters the conversation, people scatter and stop commenting.
    I seen it a half dozen times.
    Scared Americans, does it get any worse than that?

  36. @Brian and To All Readers at The Eye,

    Please let me introduce you to Rosa Koire, one of the greatest experts in the world on the subject of United Nations Agenda 21/Sustainable Development. Ironically, she is a liberal Democrat who has dedicated her life to fighting UN Agenda 21/Sustainable Development. BTW, contrary to what Steve Segner thinks, Agenda 21 is NOT a conspiracy. The United Nations itself has published it in book form and they teach city development planners in the western world how to implement sustainability concepts and provisions. KSB and the Sierra Club are UN Agenda 21 activist organizations. Please watch and listen to these videos carefully, let her connect the dots for you [to the SVVRRNM], then form your own opinions. BTW, I have contacted her and invited her to come to Sedona and speak publicly. She has agreed.~Rick

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0K6CACOGdEM

    http://www.democratsagainstunagenda21.com/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ykELwj1Ta8
    Reply

  37. To All Readers at The Eye:

    Congressperson Ann Kirkpatrick, at the urging of KSB, the Sierra Club, the nefarious Monument Workgroup, several sitting members of Sedona’s City Council and the proponents of the SVVRRNM are pushing to fast-track the NM designation by asking President Obama
    to sign an Executive Order to so order it. These NM proponents would like for you to believe that, if and when the President signs the EO, that the NM will become an irreversible matter of law. THIS IS UTTERLY FALSE YET INTENTIONALLY CONVEYED TO ALL OF YOU AS TRUTH! The NM, if designated by virtue of a Presidential EO, can and probably will be reversed by federal Court action, or in the next Congress, or by the State of Arizona under the Tenth Amendment, as follows:

    First, US courts may overturn Executive Orders and have often done so in the past.

    Second, Congress may overturn an Executive Order by passing legislation in conflict with the order OR by refusing to approve FUNDING to enforce it.

    Third, should the President veto the legislation, Congress could overturn the veto with a 2/3rds majority vote (BTW, rapidly growing opposition to federal land grabs is BIPARTISAN).

    and,

    Fourth, subject to the Tenth Amendment, the various state legislatures can nullify federal law that they deem unconstitutional. No federal court nor the U.S. Supreme Court has ever overturned this right of the states to Tenth Amendment nullification. Arizona and a majority of states, as a matter of fact, have already done this over several federal law issues. My next article here at The Eye will address the workings of the Tenth Amendment and its Nullification Clause. See the link below:

    http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/

  38. Brian says:

    @J. Rick Normand,

    Amazing! Thank you.

    BTW, i think i found an old article you wrote about the Federal Reserve years ago in some local publication. Not sure which one it was.

    Good job being so incredibly awake. Weve been out of any kind of scene politically at a local level for a long time now. Just really felt like a waste of time. We usually only talk to our Congressmen or woman and Senators and such cause local politicians seem to be so incredibly unaware of the big picture. Fortunately the higher up the chain you go the more ive found that the politicians get it and understand it more.

    Anyway, looking forward to meeting you soon. Ive seen you a ton of times in the gym as well. Didnt realize this is what you do, but youve got a new ally and i dont care who we go up against.

    Anyone who gets the Agenda 21 issue as well as the Federal Reserve is clearly thinking at the highest level. Thanks for holding the torch. I will get dozens of people to back you locally from now on. The people who dont get what were up against need to get out of the way and the people who do, like you, need all the support they can get.

    Ive been here since the early 80s and i cant tell you right now i will turn local politics upside down and get a force behind you thats going to change the way we do things here. I will get almost every person in this town under 40 and their families into action and the old guard who doesnt get its time is up.

    You old timers have been warned. Your days are numbered. You’re not seeing the big picture and this younger generation as well as the older libertarian and republicans in town do get it. Collectivsts are no longer running things anymore. Your blind sheep and im not losing my rights or our water or our land cause your too naive and politically correct to fight the fight every single American right or left should be fighting.

    Im not kidding Rick. Things are changing.

    And FYI old timers and readers of the Eye, i dont believe in the right/left paradigm dividing and confusing us. This isnt a right left issue. This is an American/globalists trying to destroy our country issue and if you dont get it your going to get knocked out of the way and take a back seat while you watch real Americans take up the fight and protect you and your families while you sit and watch from thr sidelines. Your not even in this fight until you wake up to whats really going on.

  39. Let’s review recent history (and what will likely happen to Sedona) when the feds can’t pay their bills if the National Monument designation goes through:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/10/how-the-national-parks-became-the-biggest-battleground-in-the-shutdown/280439/

  40. ps The NYSE invoked Rule 48 today. This is bad news for the economy. Will people travel during a bad economy? Maybe, but they won’t be spending much money.

  41. J. J. says:

    Good one, can’t agree more!

    I remember that shutdown, and how the State of Arizona came to the rescue to reopen the Grand Canyon. It was mind-blowing.

    That’s a good question – What will happen to the business in Sedona when the federal budget causes all Parks, Memorials and Monuments is shutdown, as it was just a short while back?

    The last time that happened, the State of Arizona came to the rescue and paid for the Grand Canyon to reopen. Will the State of Arizona come to Sedona’s rescue in the future? What will be the costs? and how will the local residents be compensated for the inconvenience of a town “shut down” because of federal budget constraints.

    I really can’t believe that residents are for this designation. It’s mind-boggling.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt2m397-lxk

  42. What bothers me is who does KSB think they are, making decisions for the entire Verde Valley? This issue should be placed on a ballot for a vote of the people. Is that pushy Democrats of the Red Rock behind this? Seems like to to me. Hit the brakes, KSB. You do not represent or have authority to speak for us.

    Thank you,

  43. @majickj and @Sharlett,

    You both, although understandably so and I don’t blame you, misunderstand Forest Plan Amendment 12 USDA-USFS of 1998 which is what you’re both referring to. Provided the policies of the Office of National Environmental Policy Act regulations are adhered to (NEPA Act enforced by the EPA), a USDA Forest Service Officer (bureaucrat) can amend or rescind Amendment 12. It is a federal management agency directive that is subject to the will of the Secretary of the Department of Agriculture who is a Presidential cabinet appointee who is generally replaced by each new U.S. President.

    THEREFORE, AMENDMENT 12 IS NOT A MATTER OF LAW AND GUARANTEES NOTHING! It is simply a NEPA federal policy wildlands management guideline which is determined by federal bureaucrats, not elected Congressional representatives. In other words, it is the product of administrative law, not constitutional law and therefore can be changed or rescinded by capricious bureaucratic decision making between one Presidential Administration and the next. Do not rely on it!

    JRN

  44. magickj says:

    Policy or no, it’s seems to be working. I do not see where there is a problem that we can’t handle. It IS something we can point at and say, “where are we not being good stewards of the land?” It seems that the National Monument is all pomp and circumstance and that NOTHING will change, except the federal government will have all our land and water rights.

    I say we just change “Grand Canyon Watershed” to “Sedona Verde Valley Red Rock” and resubmit this letter to the white house:

    http://gosar.house.gov/sites/gosar.house.gov/files/02182015%20letter%20to%20President%20Obama%20regarding%20Grand%20Canyon%20National%20Monument%20potential%20listing.pdf

  45. @magickj,

    Actually, I think we’re on the same page. Our Red Rock Country is in fine shape with stewardship the way it is. The SVVRRNM gives very few new benefits, if any, but with it comes immense risks that could cause both a lot of quality of life issues (traffic snarls and limited access to our trailheads) and a lot of economic damage in the way of giving the feds a choke-hold on the entire region including control of our real estate markets by virtue of implementing draconian permit fees, water rights restrictions, ranching restrictions, road and bridge building limitations, recreational, vehicular and camping restrictions etc. The SVVRRNM is a camouflaged Venus-Fly-Trap.

  46. Tom says:

    OK I’m wading in here. Kept quiet long enough. This council tries to do its best but they are a limited group of individuals. What limits them? Hindered by politics when their job requires none.

    I’ll not get started on their lack of common sense and the many psychological issues between the seven to write several dime novels.

    As a professional businessman and entrepreneur I’ve met and broken bread with hundreds of their types and acknowledge little can be done with those drunk on power, tunnel vision, lack of public administration education, and on and on here and in other states. Good example of many on council’s inability to be more than foot soldiers and not trailblazers? Most promote Hillary Clinton, a known egomaniac with the moral equivalent of a plankton. Why? Cause the Party tells them so.

    Everyone on city council including former mayor Rob thinks Clinton walks on water. Jesus!

    Let’s play devils advocate here. Looking at the D&R herd, why would anyone promote someone other than a Ben Carson, a brilliant doctor with intelligence and an ability to see the entire body politic rather than one scab? D&Rs don’t want the best. They want to think they can control scumbags because they are scumbags.

    I’m a progressive Democrat. I am not a member of any Party herd but I will be a herder. I unlike my fellow progressives choose people who represent the greater need not my need. Our country, our city needs the greater good. Lamentations fellow citizens. You have elected folks that represent you as you are. Not too bright, undereducated, selfish, apathetic, power driven.

    And Steve, you’re a good man with good intentions but liberal progressive socialism will destroy our businesses and our town. I know you didn’t get as far in school as you liked but let’s face it, you had a damn good public school education while there and a unique country with a democracy that allowed you to make a million without proving you were rich or an entitled governing class first.

    You are a 1%er not a 99er, a stupid sound bite that only morons repeat or believe. You should be working to create your opportunities for others rather than try to close the door on them. You’re a smart man or you wouldn’t be where you are. Take your blinders off and embrace your independence from the little city (deleted by editor). It’s why I like you as a man, as a businessman. You don’t keep still or quiet. Socialism doesn’t allow non PC folks like you to survive when your worth to them is over. Democracy let’s you rebuild and rebuild.

    Keep the socialism for helping others. Keep the democracy because it enables you and me to help others. Simple.

  47. Michael says:

    Excuse me? Sedonabiz is NO longer going to publish Rick’s eye-opening posts about the NM? So I guess if you have TOO MUCH good information that can’t be refuted, Sedonabiz won’t publish remarks? Tsk. Oh! just good journalism around these parts.

  48. Thomas says:

    This -> “Tom O’Halleran treats everyone at the meetings as if we are the little people and we aren’t educated enough to really understand how important this is. He is a typical politician and never answers a question; he just skirts around it and says “just trust us” over and over.”

  49. OMG says:

    @Thomas – And where have we heard those words before – “just trust us” over and over?

    At the Sedona City Council meetings uttered by no other than Steve Segner when begging for the city contract for destination marketing.

    If ever there was a reason to say “NO” to the NM designation that should top the list. We all know the ongoing results of the “trust us” translation imposed by Steve Segner and the regional Chamber of Commerce.

    In a word: DISASTER!

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